NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #47

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025

Yes, that’s what NC was getting at when she said it to Upton.

Anyone remember the knitting wars? This thread reminds me of that. I will not purity spiral. Sandie Peggie is entitled to single sex changing rooms. End of.

Well it's been emotional. Getting bored now by a certain poster labouring the same point over and over and over so I'm going to tackle the abandoned housework.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the threads. Well not everyone (see above)

Special thanks to nauticant, Bez , ickky and Marie.

It's been a blast

We refer to the local small Tesco as the corner shop because it’s a shop that’s on the corner of the street. I’m curious now, why does corner shop have an edge to it?

I wouldn’t want to be working in Vic A&E over next while. A bad atmosphere possibly.

I would love to know how many posts Upton has liked or shared about punching or killing terfs. We will never know so it is what it is.

Anyway, I think I need a stiff drink after all that.

Also, if using German pronunciation the "s" would turn to "sch" (except in some Northern dialects) but the "t" would still be clearly audible.

Referring to the corner shop is not racist, Christ on a bike 🤯

It was a joke about corners having edges.

Possibly no works Christmas party this year.

You forgot the big one. Biological sex is a nebulous dog whistle!! 🐕 😙

Unfortunately you seem to be claiming everything is racist, in every direction. You said that the jokes were racist when the jokes are made about everyone regardless of race. That not making the jokes about Tsunami was racism. That making jokes about tsunami wasn’t racism because they weren’t racist jokes, and so on.

I get you’re angry that people are insufficiently condemnatory of SP, but you are losing sight of what matters in this case.

People can use coarse ugly language and be good people. They can be aggressive criminals and love their Nan. SP can be a great nurse treating people respectfully (as testified by PP), yet still share a list of unpleasant jokes using the P word. She can be a woman deserving of SSS while still thinking DU is not only a man but also weird.

That's a surprising statement - of course there are people who are racist, and who also like to police other people's language, and who are careful not to use derogatory terms themselves which is obvious because it would kinda blow their cover, wouldn't it, if they did!

Then there are people who exhibit all the signs of being racist - using offensive terms, laughing at racists jokes, but are somehow, despite this, 'good people' because they are colour blind - not literally, I assume.

Then there are the people in the middle of the two extremes.
People who 'would never dream of using a derogatory term themselves' because that's who they are: people who would never dream of using a derogatory term about someone because of their race, or any other aspect of them.

That's not so unusual, you know , there are lots of them about.

And, crucially, these people in the middle who 'would never dream of using a derogatory term themselves' are not 'the most racist people', and they are not 'blind to their own racism.', they are just ordinary people with enough awareness to be respectful of other people.

I know which group I would rather be around, it's the ordinary 'decent' people who don't belong to either of your extremes.

Closely followed on the list by:

She has male chromosomes

It was also commonly used in Ayrshire where I grew up.

Along with "the Tallies" as the name for the local ice cream parlour / small corner shop run by an Italian family. I was about 10 before I realised it wasn't the name of the shop....

We'll see aboot that!

I had that particular class before Dunblane and Lockerbie happened, so I've no idea.

The Dunblane reports were being relayed by radio when I was working in an actual school and the reaction then was shock. The difference, I think, is that the experience of being in an actual school is something that children know.

They can't relate to the idea of being in a space shuttle, but they find it funny to suggest to a schoolteacher that another schoolteacher might do something stupid.

Unfortunately you seem to be claiming everything is racist, in every direction. You said that the jokes were racist when the jokes are made about everyone regardless of race. That not making the jokes about Tsunami was racism. That making jokes about tsunami wasn’t racism because they weren’t racist jokes, and so on.

When I asked about whether jokes are made about the victims of Dunblane, Lockerbie, and the 7/7 victims, the silence was deafening.

It seems jokes about Pakistani victims are fair game. Why is that?

And why have you missed my repeated posts that she still deserves a SSS?

Yes, probably.

No different to when the Challenger space shuttle exploded or Princess Dianna died in that car crash, and the sick jokes were flying round every factory in UK within minutes. Some people enjoy dark, morbid humour. Frankie Boyle and Jimmy Carr make a good living telling those jokes. I'm not a huge fan of it myself, but I'm not going to demand they're all denounced as monsters.

Dammit, I've lost my "Do not feed the interruptaron" sign

And SP will have had plenty of statutory training working 40 years in NHS to know what was said wasn't ok.

Well the statutory training obviously isn't working for many, many people. Perhaps the 'inclusivity trainers' need to have a long, hard think about why that might be.

Anyway because nobody has posted any recipes I'm sat crying into my Large Cheesy McCrispy, no bacon, fries and full fat coke and it's all your fault.

The tears are adding extra salt.

Maybe not a bad thing!

That's probably too close to home for them. And yes, sometimes that does make a difference, even if it shouldn't. By 'home', I mean geographical closeness, not close in terms of racial identity.

I heard a few terrible Fred/Rose West jokes when I was at school as a teenager and it was all kicking off. One from my history teacher, no less.

When was Sad Times uttered and by who? I've got all the other memes, but not this one.