NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #47

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025

Brave of JR to bring up 1984 at the end, not sure I’d want that to be what people think of if I was trying to defend a man who claims to be a woman 🤣

😂😂 you gave her the finger! I think you meant to use this ⬆️

Just so it's 100% clear, there'll be nothing to log in to tomorrow, right?

(In an alternate reality that would mean posting trailing quickly off. Ha. Haha.)

Certainly in comparison to Fife witnesses she has been painfully honest.

MC claiming that she had no idea why she wrote in her email that SP had been referred to the NMC. Utter bollocks. Of course she knows why she wrote that statement, because someone must have told her that a referral was being/had been made.

Two edges, technically.

🫣

@nomas I’m pretty sure there will have been similar black humour about the tsunami.

Not in my circles, but there will have been.

And if there were you would have course say it was evidence of racism, as you are saying its absence is evidence of racism!

I did. This is the one I wanted, but going forward the upwards arrow is the way to go to be sure. 👆

Our corner shop isn't quite on the corner, there's a bit of a green. Calling it the corner shop makes me feel dishonest.

I think you need to go and have a drink with Gina 🍷🍷🍷

Corners usually do.

I have repeatedly said even racists deserve female only spaces.

What I object to is the minimising on this thread.

There is also an undertone of glee in how some posters remember saying P*^^.

I see much more Sheridan Smith as Sandie if she can do a good Fife accent. She’s only 44 but they won’t make it for a few years so it could work…

@LiesDoNotBecomeUsi wasn’t sticking my finger up at you - I meant to use this 👆to indicate agreement. Aplologies 😢

That word was in extremely common usage when I was younger. Similar to “chav” - it wasn’t always aimed at the traveller community directly.

I don't think anyone contributing to a 45,000+ post volume of threads about this is going to be trying to 'distract' anyone from it.

Everyone is discussing this, and the various arguments and positions that have been put forward surrounding it.

As I said, if someone was racist but didn't ask for people of any particular race to leave the changing room, that suggests that when SP did ask for single-sex changing rooms, she didn't do it because of bigotry or hatred.

The difference is because the tsunami is there were British victims, so it doesn't get disgusting memes.

There was.

Plus it is a bit odd that someone as intelligent , self reflective and thoughtful as Dr U would not make this discovery until they have qualified as a dr, undertaken a number of post grad placements, met and married a woman having led an active life as a man including very masculine sporting hobbies.

But hey, could happen I suppose, and it’s not for us to speculate, though of course JR can drop distracting and unlikely breadcrumbs if she wishes to, though they won’t be picked up by anyone who can make a judgement about the case , but will be picked up by people who want them to be big heavy sticks, not breadcrumbs.

This is a good example of no matter what you do you are wrong.

I used BAME for years when doing statistics comparing employees who identified as “white” with people who did not. I used it because that is what EHRC, CIPD and others recommended. I thought I was being respectful. Then I found out I wasn’t.

As pp pointed out language changes and no matter how respectful you are you can still get it wrong.

Have now noticed a couple of typos. Too late to edit.

Can you imagine anyone in 2025 using the comment about someone’s seriously ill father to make a point on Mumsnet? People in glass houses and all that.

That's a shame, I kind of like the idea of you giving everyone the finger.

😂😂😂

This thread has depressingly turned into a list of offensive words 'we used to say but didn't know were offensive'

Not sure what the point of it is. Particularly because Sandie Peggie still uses offensive terms and doesn't seem that bothered about it.

Is it possible to mute posters on mumsnet? Is it a premium feature?

Saying illegal immigrants are returned to their home country is naive. Only those who are detected are returned, and not necessarily all of them. There are believed to be somewhere between 500k and 1M illegal immigrants living in the UK. She may be referring to asylum seekers and legal immigrants, but saying she clearly is just demonstrates your own bias.