"Biological sex is a multidimensional variable with various components" - Thread 2

[MissScarletInTheBallroom]

The last thread ended with Tandora attempting to sidestep the question about what she would say if her daughter had been raped by a trans woman in a female only space and no longer believed that trans women should be in female only spaces as a consequence.

Her last reply was along the lines of, "The same thing I would say if she had been bullied by a green person at school and said she no longer wanted to go to school with green people."

@Tandora can we have a serious answer?

Come on guys, give Tandora a break! Look, it’s simple, a man, Dr Upton, decided he was a woman, in his own words a biological woman. So that’s it, that’s his ‘truth’ so it must be true!!

If he comes across a woman giving birth in the ED that ‘birthing person’ will 100% of the time be female. That’s a truth. But that doesn’t suit men who wish to compel everybody else to collude in a lie dressed up as their truth.

Tandora will now start to argue that giving birth doesn’t define being female. Not all females give birth, either through choice of for medical or other reasons. But they are the only 1 of the 2 sexes that have ever given birth. Or am I missing a multidimensional truth here?

What’s that, Tandora? That’s just my truth, and your truth is a complex multidimensional system that my brain just can’t grasp? Oh I can grasp your truth alright. It’s the one you’re clinging to for some personal and/or ideological reason. I’d have some respect for you if you just said I think it’s ok for men to claim to be women, & to be treated as such. I’d 100% disagree, but at least that would be nearer to the truth.

Forcing women to accept men into private female only spaces on the basis of a lie, harms women.

More false attributions 😂 I don't condone violence against anyone (I think it is a bit of a stretch to call that state sanctioned)

But I am guessing you approve of the wholesale discrimination against trans people through refusing them housing and work if you support Posie Parker / Kellie Jay Keen so much?

Look, it’s simple, a man, Dr Upton, decided he was a woman, in his own words a biological woman. So that’s it, that’s his ‘truth’ so it must be true!!

reality innit 🤷🏻

Being trans is not a lie.
Trans people have the right to be accepted and accommodated in society as who they are, which is trans.

That's your belief system - it is too simplistic and it doesn't reflect the true complexities of human diversity.

There is plenty of human diversity, agreed. The one thing, however, that does not alter is the fact that there are only two sexes in the human species and changing from one sex to the other is impossible.

Dr Upton is biologically female because they ‘understand’ themself to be so. In the same world, women with female bodies can’t possibly know they are female because they haven’t had their chromosomes checked.

Trans people existing doesn't harm women

Acknowledging that they exist doesn't harm women.

Trans women accessing single sex spaces designed for biological women does harm some women.

It's upsetting that you can't acknowledge that last part.

We are now in the realm of ‘alternative facts’ 🙄

Sex is a multidimensional, complex, developmental system, with multiple components. Some of these are fixed and unchangeable (like chromosomes), some of these are variable, and changeable - like hormones.

Being accepted as trans isn’t enough. They must be accepted as the sex they say they are in all circumstances. There are many examples of transwomen refusing third spaces that would protect their dignity and privacy.

Mother: look at all your toys on the floor? Pick them up and put them away!

Child: what toys? You might call them toys I call them a modern art installation. Art can’t just be picked up & put away. Where is the ‘away’ & how would I be speaking my truth if I removed them just on your say so?

And the truth, dear reader, is that the toys were quickly put away by the child as the mother threatened to cancel her sleepover.

I feel this is the level of the main poster on this thread.

Yes they exist. Flat earthers exist. I’ve met someone who thought they were the Queen.

Men, males, going into women’s spaces because they think they are something they can never be, has the potential to harm women. You can’t change sex.

I understand that is your view on what being trans is.

It is harmful and wrong.

All of which can’t alter the sex you are, and can’t make men women and vice versa.

Dr Upton is biologically female because they ‘understand’ themself to be so. In the same world, women with female bodies can’t possibly know they are female because they haven’t had their chromosomes checked

It's entirely possible that due to an unfortunate lack of chromosome checking, Upton wrongly concluded himself to be male, and hence his trans identity to be female. When in actual fact, Ted is female and Beth is male.

If he hasn't checked his chromosomes, he can't be sure Beth is female.

It’s real, and can be evidenced. This is where we differ.

Its incredibly trumpian

In many ways @Tandora you’re the real bigot here. Unable to accept transwomen unless you pretend they’re female. Like those people who “don’t see colour”

What a great headline!

thankfully and finally women’s sport is getting the focus it deserves!

and not a cats chance in hell a trans woman will be included, or a ‘non binary’ male, for all the right reasons. And I’m sure many transwomen agree.

In society there has to be a reasonable balancing of things.

Facilities and services can be reserved for birth women where it is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim - this could be prisons, rape crisis, particular health services, perhaps.

However, that cannot mean never allowing a trans woman to use basic facilities like toilets in accordance with her lived sex.

Men saying are women is a lie. It’s always been a lie and it will always be a lie.

I accept trans women for exactly who they say they are.

Being trans is not a lie, it's just different to you. Not a lie. Just different.

Upton would never check his chromosomes as they’d come back male.