"Biological sex is a multidimensional variable with various components" - Thread 2

[MissScarletInTheBallroom]

The last thread ended with Tandora attempting to sidestep the question about what she would say if her daughter had been raped by a trans woman in a female only space and no longer believed that trans women should be in female only spaces as a consequence.

Her last reply was along the lines of, "The same thing I would say if she had been bullied by a green person at school and said she no longer wanted to go to school with green people."

@Tandora can we have a serious answer?

Yes it’s pretty widely accepted as existing. Body integrity identity disorder

Ive heard of at least as many of each as I'd heard of 'transgender' people in 2005

Just because you hadn't heard of trans people in 2005, doesn't mean they didn't exist.
The health service was already busy providing lots of services to trans people in 2005. We also already had the Gender Recognition Act, which officially recognised trans people in law.

Not so, your other imaginary groups of people.

Have there been any lawsuits though? Seeing as it’s based on those now…

If that is correct (you don't quote sources directly so I can't check), and (as you say) transwomen are women, then these countries can't be that great at womens' wellbeing, can they?

*women's

Apologies, rogue apostrophe.

Body integrity identity disorder also exists, and your point is what?

Just because you hadn't heard of trans people in 2005, doesn't mean they didn't exist.

Back at ya for the other groups I mentioned.

They don't though.

"Gender pay gap" statistics are fairly meaningless in a country where a man or a woman is anyone who says they are one.

Well there's a lot that is wrong with this post, incorrect attribution of statement, and invalid conclusion.

@Tandora
Sorry to quote such a long post again, but I am interested in learning more about this.

Maybe I could move the conversation along by referencing something you said. You will see that when asked about a person 'whose reproductive anatomy was entirely male' you understood it as a person who has 'a penis and testes'.

Would it be fair to deduce from this that part of your theory of sex includes that a penis and testes is a component of the male sex?

These are not pay gap studies.

People have crossed dressed for a variety of reasons for a long time. The diagnosis of gender dysphoria has been around for a while.

These fact dont mean that sex is undefinable, complicated or up to the individual to determine.

That's because they're all fucking meaningless if none of them are using a coherent definition of what a woman is.

If we can't trust the most basic input, how can we trust any of the other inputs?

Tandora I feel we have located the heart of the problem here.

You have decided that only your perception of the world matters.

That is not the case.

Non binary people @Tandora. What sex?
Desistors. What sex?

Would it be fair to deduce from this that part of your theory of sex includes that a penis and testes is a component of the male sex?

Yes.

No, I've that decided that facts and evidence matter; that what can actually be observed in the empirical world matters.

You have decided only your perceptions of the world matter, and that's why you refuse to accept that the existence of trans people could reflect a real, legitimate, natural, stable form of human diversity, despite a mountain of evidence of this. In your world transness is an imaginary and elusive identity. And no matter what anyone says you will never for a second take a moment to reconsider this perspective.

Please do entertain us by spelling out the "lot" that is wrong...

I mean these are fairly sensible countries at the top of these tables aren't they? Are you somehow imagining that large swathes of their populations who have M on their birth certificates are, for shits and giggles, randomly putting that they are F for data at work, tax, criminal records or for medical records?

What fanciful imagination you must have!

Trans populations seem to be stabilizing around the 1% or lower mark, so the figures will be in this region. Or lower, as plenty trans people will record their birth-assigned sex.

No, I've decided facts and evidence matter. What you can observe in the empirical world.

Wow. This is actually hilarious.

I didn't realise you were this deluded.

I've already answered r.e. disistence.

Non-binary people are non-binary. I don't see why you think I would fail to recognise non-binary people, when this whole thread is about me trying to explain how and why biological sex development is not always strictly binary?

I assume all it shows is that countries that have made some progress in equality between the sexes (and I'm also not too sure about NZ, I have lived there and my children and dp are NZ citizens) have fallen hard for gender ideology as the next frontier in progressivism. Causation and correlation might be quite hard to separate here.

First part ok.

Then "(as you say) transwomen are women?"- where have you taken that from in my post? False attribution from information you have available to you.

Then "then these countries can't be that great at womens' wellbeing, can they?" Conclusion does not logically follow from premises.

Sorry, meant to quote this