"Biological sex is a multidimensional variable with various components" - Discuss

[dunBle]

To save further derailment of the Sandie Peggie tribunal threads with people debating Tandora's statements on the above theme, I've started this thread to point them to instead.

Well I have a doctorate (and significant professional experience) in the actual subject matter. So yes, I'd say I know/ understand the subject a lot more than a biologist who works in a completely different field.

I'm not interested in revealing more about my personal background, so you are free to take that as you will.

If you have a doctorate in the subject matter and it's niche enough to be outing, that means it is some made up rubbish like gender studies and not a real scientific discipline.

What subject? Gender? Something you can't define or meassure?

Can’t you at least link to some publications from another group working in broadly the same area so we’ve some idea of which of the various relevant domains your expertise is in?

I'm not going to reveal more personal details about myself. You are of course free to take that as you will and I have no control over it. This is an anonymous forum and we could all be posing as anything. The point is to discuss the arguments and explain the evidence.

Anything on the relevance of 'your field' to women's rights and 'who is trans'? I may have missed it

You don't need a PhD to know that there are only 2 sexual development pathways.
Your PhD might give you a deeper understanding of the pathways but confusing the micro view with the macro view means you've got lost somewhere in your arrogance forest.

If you look hard enough 2+2 is 10 but only if you've got lost trying to identify what 2 is.

You are here and you need a common sense map to guide you back to reality.

We will consider your assertions the same way you dismiss others.

You have never supported your claims with evidential links despite being asked for years. They never had to be 'outing' to you. Yet you have then claimed that you are here to 'educate and inform'.

All based on your declaration that you are more qualified than anyone else.

I personally, don't care about your qualifications but you do. You keep mentioning them. Yet, the disparity between presenting a coherent and evidenced position or answer to questions certainly doesn't indicate that depth of knowledge in my opinion nor in many others who have mentioned the same thing to you.

It is the hypocrisy that I am commenting on.

Oh Dear, its seems the silly mummies/crones/hags/TERFS aren't quite as uneducated as mens rights activists would prefer. I'm happy to reiterate that I have GCSE Biology, A Level Biology, BSc. (Hons) in Molecular Biology and Genetics (First), had a research career for 10 years doing cancer research and now work in a related tech field.

Which, whilst useful for understanding mammalian sex development pathways, none of which are needed to be able to distinguish males from females or to know that human sex is binary.

What evidence?

You don't post any evidence. It seems to be only your opinion.

Do you work on human biology @Tandora ? Or do you research social or emotional topics that have some relationship to biology?

Are you paid to "research" or is it voluntary?

Did you apply to fill a role or is it a hobby / passion project you founded yourself?

we’ve discussed the thread title for several pages now.

what is the conclusion?

im interested to know what you think @Tandora should be the real world impact and result of knowing that biological sex is a multidimensional variable with various components?

im actually in agreement in terms of how there is diversity in human individual biology resulting in all sorts of outcomes. It’s how evolution works. Evolution hasnt included changing sex for humans however.

but I’m interested to know what you think the impact is, or should be, of the statement in the thread title.

Also, anyone with any degree in Biology is capable of reading and comprehending amy of the 1000s of research papers out there on human developmental biology and/or Disorders of Sex Development. Why don't you link to one which you think supports what you are trying toveducate us on Tandora? See if it helps convice us.

I'm well aware of your opinion of me @Helleofabore . It's as lacking in foundation as your opinions on sex/gender and transness.

I don't spend much time talking about my qualifications really - just that sometimes it drives me a bit nuts because I get endlessly accused of 1) being completely ignorant about something that I've literally dedicated years of my life studying/ thinking about from posters who clearly are very very angry, but have very little insight into the subject at hand and b) that I'm a troll, when actually this is something I care intensely about and my only desire is to challenge the misunderstanding and misinformation spread widely on this site, and offer a different voice/ perspective based on actually being informed on the issue.

I often site evidence on my posts, but actually the issue isn't lack of evidence. There's a vast amount of academic/ scientific/ medical and policy sphere literature that pps are able to access. It's that people are totally unwilling/ unable to see what's right in front of them because they have become entrenched in twisted and misleading logics that need to be reasoned through. That's what I'm trying to help with.

there's literally thousands of papers on DSDs. What is it you are looking for exactly?

Anyone with a modicum of common sense, comprehension skills and A level biology should be capable too. But apparently it’s all so very very complex (ie esoteric guff with no science to back it up) and just too hard to understand.

Why do you keep saying people are angry? I'm laughing, laughing at your vastly inflated sense of importance and specialness for doing something that every single research scientist does.

One that proves sex is so very complicated that it’s impossible to define human beings into two sex categories.

I know, I've read many of them. Im looking for you to identify one that supports your assertion that "Biological sex is a multidimensional variable with various components"

Do you think if I had a vastly inflated sense of importance I'd spend my time arguing anonymously on mumsnet?

People are exceptionally angry. Yesterday I got called, disgusting, sickening, "level of evil never seen before" among other things.

Perhaps one about the DSD where genetic karyotype, anatomy and endogenous hormones are all male but the person can still be categorised as female because of brain sex?

Can you link us to that post so we can see the context?

No because it would take me hours to find it.
The context was me trying to explain the complex biology of sex development.

Who here is angry that the extremely rare DSD CAIS exists? Identify yourself please?

I personally feel sorry for these people for being dragged into ideological arguments about transness that they have specifically asked to not be conflated with, and find the science fascinating!

Just search for the quote "level of evil" surely?