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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

DH -v- The WI, Thread 2

703 replies

Another2Cats · 22/07/2025 07:33

@RareGoalsVerge rightly pointed out (thank you) on my previous thread that it was getting near the limit and that I should start a second thread, so this is it.

This is a link to the first thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5333650-an-update-to-the-wi-announcement-thread-my-dh-just-got-a-reply-to-his-application-to-join-them

So, a recap.

DH has long had an interest in a couple of activities that were only offered locally by the WI. Obviously, it never crossed his mind to try and join as the WI is a woman only organisation - or so he thought.

But then, following the FWS case, the WI made an announcement that they would continue accepting trans identifying men (TIM) as members.

I suggested to DH that he could now join the WI and jokingly said (although it wasn't really funny, I'm not good at jokes) that he wouldn't have to bother with a wig and lippy any more.

So DH applied to join the local federation and was rejected.

Various things then happened and DH is now bringing a sex discrimination claim against the WI.

The WI instructed a big Tier 1 London law firm, one of the partners of which then called DH and explained that they would be relying on section 158, Equality Act and invited him to withdraw his claim.

After that they sent a letter to DH stating that in addition to the section 158 defence it was also the case that the WI "does not purport to establish single sex membership within the meaning of the EqA"

They went on to say:

"As such, it is free to define “women who have reached the Age of Majority” within its Membership Rules as it pleases, as long as its definition is not discriminatory. As we explain below, the definition “women who live as women, including transgender women” is not discriminatory."

They also said that their membership policy does not discriminate on the grounds of sex or render reassignment and that:

"The Membership Policy does not exclude anyone on these grounds. It allows for the admission of “biological” men as members, as long as they are living as women. It also allows for the admission of people who are not trans, as long as they are living as women."
.

So that is where we are as of today. The next step in the process will be in early August so there probably won't be any substantive update to the thread until then.

But, as I said earlier, even though I don't always reply to every post I do read every single comment (often more than once) and having people take an interest really does make a difference. Thank you.
.

PS In their letter, they put quotation marks around the word biological - "biological" (see above). Both DH and I were rather confused by this and thought that they were perhaps quoting him in the Particulars of Claim, but DH hadn't used that term.

On looking at the letter in more detail, the answer was found in one of the footnotes. They said:

2 Where references are made to “biological” sex in in this letter, quotation marks are used to make it clear that we refer to the term as used by the Supreme Court in FWS, to mean sex as recorded at birth. This is not a term that NFWI would otherwise use itself, because sex (including the sex of trans and intersex people) is not binary in this way.

[emphasis added]

Well, it's going to be interesting to hear that point argued in court. DH did make a point in the Particulars of Claim to keep referring to "men with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment", perhaps this annoyed them a bit?

An update to the WI Announcement thread. My DH just got a reply to his application to join them. | Mumsnet

This is not a thread about a thread, but recently there was a thread about the Womens Institute announcement that they would not be implementing the S...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5333650-an-update-to-the-wi-announcement-thread-my-dh-just-got-a-reply-to-his-application-to-join-them

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
WorriedMutha · 03/12/2025 14:20

Well done OP. Your husband is a hero tell him. I hope he is assembling a costs schedule for service on the WI. It is every day heroes like you that are leading the fight back against this ideology.

CautiousLurker2 · 03/12/2025 14:25

ProfessorBettyBooper · 03/12/2025 14:19

Well according to Colin Wynter KC, now might be perfect time to crack on...

https://x.com/QcWynter/status/1996197887630545280?s=20

God, I love Colin. 😍

nauticant · 03/12/2025 14:28

I trust that@Another2Catsand Mr@Another2Catswill be up for some awards after this.

Fantastically well done.

Jellyjellyonaplate · 03/12/2025 14:34

Well done @Another2Cats and Mr A2C. Seems you got the ball rolling!

MelOfTheRoses · 03/12/2025 14:35

EmpressaurusKitty · 03/12/2025 11:10

Trans UK Reddit’s take on it seems to be that the WI won’t be able to tell people’s sexes.

https://sefwi.org.uk/gallery/nfwi-agm-2024/
You just can't tell.
No clue 🤷‍♀️

NFWI AGM 2024 – The Suffolk East Federation of Women's Institutes

https://sefwi.org.uk/gallery/nfwi-agm-2024/

Szygy · 03/12/2025 14:38

MelOfTheRoses · 03/12/2025 14:35

https://sefwi.org.uk/gallery/nfwi-agm-2024/
You just can't tell.
No clue 🤷‍♀️

🙄

Apollo441 · 03/12/2025 14:52

RareGoalsVerge · 03/12/2025 12:31

Commiserations to your DH @Another2Cats as I presume today's news means that he will not be successful in gaining admittance to the WI. I do hope that he finds another way to pursue his hobby with like-minded individuals in a mixed-sex environment.

He can join the sisterhood group. If they kick him out for 'not living as a woman' he can sue. Might bring some legal clarity to what that actually is (given that having a baby seems to be no barrier to claiming to be 'living as a man).

qwertyqwertymnbv · 03/12/2025 15:22

Wow, this is turning into a brilliant week for women! Now all we need is for the Sandie Peggie verdict to go the right way and Christmas will be perfect.

madeupnameagain · 03/12/2025 15:25
  • For example, in April 2026, we will be launching a national network of local WI Sisterhood groups, which will offer monthly opportunities for all people, including transgender women, to come together to socialise, learn from each other, and share their experiences of living as women.

does this extend to all men?

WarrenTofficier · 03/12/2025 15:36

madeupnameagain · 03/12/2025 15:25

  • For example, in April 2026, we will be launching a national network of local WI Sisterhood groups, which will offer monthly opportunities for all people, including transgender women, to come together to socialise, learn from each other, and share their experiences of living as women.

does this extend to all men?

Well either it will have to include men or they will have to defend why all people doesn't include men and justify their exclusion when it's not because of the single sex exemption.

The release reads very much like 'well we are told TW can't legally be members so we have cooked up what we hope will be a way to carry on regardless by not calling them members'. I suspect they think this is going to be a way to keep on keeping on but if they don't admit men who acknowledge they are men into these sisterhood groups the like of the OPs DH will be able to ask them some very interesting questions as to why he can't join their mixed sex group.

TakingMyChancesWithTheRabbits · 03/12/2025 15:45

Thank you @Another2Cats and MrAnother2Cats. Even better than the decision, I found out courtesy of the 3 o'clock news on Radio 2, which included a clip of Helen Joyce reacting to it. Things really are shifting, aren't they?

TheodoreisntBeth · 03/12/2025 15:51

Due to the impact we know this will have on our members, we have considered the issue extensively to ensure we have explored all options available to us before making any changes.

Shame WI didn't do that before deciding to let men join eh?

Dick pandering handmaidens.

lcakethereforeIam · 03/12/2025 16:31

How are these 'sisterhood' groups going to be paid for?

nauticant · 03/12/2025 16:36

Exactly what I wondered. If it's out of WI funds that might cause the organisation problems in terms of its charitable status.

BendoftheBeginning · 03/12/2025 17:19

I do hope lots of men are moved to join the Sisterhood groups, and aren’t illegally stopped for not being feminine enough.

applecrumblespider · 03/12/2025 18:25

There's a bit of frothing and/or surprise on my WI Committee. I'm keeping quiet as usual. I may be cynical but I doubt these sisterhood groups will attract members and be sustainable.

LittleBitofBread · 03/12/2025 18:30

applecrumblespider · 03/12/2025 18:25

There's a bit of frothing and/or surprise on my WI Committee. I'm keeping quiet as usual. I may be cynical but I doubt these sisterhood groups will attract members and be sustainable.

Frothing in favour of the decision, or against it?

KindCompassion · 03/12/2025 20:48

Your husband is a total legend!
if he’d like an even more difficult side quest next, perhaps he can help me change the law so child rapists can actually be prosecuted?

Iamnotalemming · 03/12/2025 21:43

So it is possible to comply with the law without finalised guidance? Who knew? Perhaps someone could tell the NHS and HM Prisons.

Stopbringingmicehome · 03/12/2025 22:37

I've emailed the WI asking if they are going to use funds from membership to pay for the sisterhood meetings . I've suggested they will be self funded by the attendees.
Also thank you to OP and her husband who no doubt had an effect in the WI , becoming women only again .

applecrumblespider · 03/12/2025 23:14

LittleBitofBread · 03/12/2025 18:30

Frothing in favour of the decision, or against it?

Frothing against the decision - most committee members are TWAW and a few are deep into it (from what I've picked up, no committee conversations have been had about the issue). No actual transwomen in the members though.

Ineedtoseetobelieve32 · 03/12/2025 23:46

Thank you, OP, and OP's husband! The pressure you applied must have played a part in this outcome! 🎉

WandaSiri · 04/12/2025 06:35

@Another2Cats You and your DH are absolute legends. Thanks so much.

I hope your husband's local WI starts to offer courses/hobby nights for his hobby.

WandaSiri · 04/12/2025 06:41

Stopbringingmicehome · 03/12/2025 22:37

I've emailed the WI asking if they are going to use funds from membership to pay for the sisterhood meetings . I've suggested they will be self funded by the attendees.
Also thank you to OP and her husband who no doubt had an effect in the WI , becoming women only again .

Excellent question.

Also, they shouldn't try to put off men who aren't trans by saying they are especially interested in having MCW at these events. They clearly couldn't justify the Positive Action exemption so they are trying to bring it in by the back door.

magentafox · 04/12/2025 06:59

I look forward to reading this and the first thread in full later. I started a thread yesterday re GG and WI membership predicting both orgs won't remove existing members. I predict the next wave of this is TRAs arguing that biological sex includes men who feel like women because 'they feel that way in their brains'.

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