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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mayor of London Sadiq Khan speaks out on Supreme Court’s definition of ‘sex’

131 replies

IwantToRetire · 07/07/2025 20:15

“As the Mayor of London I meet regularly with trans Londoners and I know the stigma they face, the discrimination they face. I know this is one of those vulnerable communities across the country and across the world, and I’m fed up with trans people being used as a political football.

“I’m fed up with them being at the centre of a cruel cultural war. And that’s why it’s really important that the Equality and Human Rights Commission comes up with proper guidance because what I don’t want is us to regress the rights that have been hard-fought and won been rowed back.”

https://www.attitude.co.uk/news/mayor-of-london-speaks-out-about-supreme-courts-definition-of-sex-487186/

I was going to add this to the tread about Labour letting down the trans community but that has been deleted for infringing copyright.

Mayor of London Sadiq Khan speaks out on Supreme Court's definition of 'sex' (EXCLUSIVE)

"As the Mayor of London I meet regularly with Trans Londoners and I know the stigma they face, the discrimination they face"

https://www.attitude.co.uk/news/mayor-of-london-speaks-out-about-supreme-courts-definition-of-sex-487186/

OP posts:
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5
Rightsraptor · 08/07/2025 10:17

What an utter fool the man is.

Thanks for the transcription, @POW.
Why was he talking about Ms Hall in the 3rd person when she was addressing him directly - is that a formal meeting etiquette thing?

Abhannmor · 08/07/2025 11:05

Igneococcus · 07/07/2025 20:34

The thing I find most baffling, as the granddaughter and sister of politicians (not in the UK), is how crap at politics these people are. This was a golden opportunity to step back from this idiocy "court ruling, dudes, nothing I can do about it, lets just make the best of it" but no, he has to keep this shit up. Fool.

💯. It's just painting by numbers politics. As my son put it , in reference to many of his peer group : ' they buy their politics as a job lot - unexamined '.

JazzyJelly · 08/07/2025 11:14

@POWNewcastleEastWallsendthanks for posting that transcript. What a disingenuous, cowardly DARVO, pretending that Hall wouldn't say what she meant about rape gangs when she spelled it out repeatedly!

moto748e · 08/07/2025 11:22

I assumed that Khan was actually trying to goad her into saying, Pakistani men in that transcript.

Kinsters · 08/07/2025 11:29

@fromorbit that's an interesting point. I wonder if any other groups have ever been banned from pride. Anyone associating with gender critical women would be ostracised post haste but a man associating with literal homophobes is welcomed. Not that I think he should be shunned but it's telling that women are treated so much more harshly.

jay55 · 08/07/2025 11:33

Makes me glad I voted for count binface

Extravirginolive · 08/07/2025 11:34

The mistake is thinking that Khan believes women are equal to women.

He simply doesn't.

JazzyJelly · 08/07/2025 11:37

moto748e · 08/07/2025 11:22

I assumed that Khan was actually trying to goad her into saying, Pakistani men in that transcript.

Edited

That hadn't occurred to me, I thought he was just evading the question, but you may well be right.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/07/2025 11:51

moto748e · 08/07/2025 11:22

I assumed that Khan was actually trying to goad her into saying, Pakistani men in that transcript.

Edited

Yes, that’s what I thought, too. I’ve discussed this elsewhere on MN.

maltravers · 08/07/2025 11:51

moto748e · 08/07/2025 11:22

I assumed that Khan was actually trying to goad her into saying, Pakistani men in that transcript.

Edited

He comes across so badly there. What happened to accountability, transparency, concern for young female Londoners? Descending to stupid word games when young girls are being raped and abused. Shame on him.

LegoNinjago · 08/07/2025 11:56

Extravirginolive · 08/07/2025 11:34

The mistake is thinking that Khan believes women are equal to women.

He simply doesn't.

Absolutely this

Extravirginolive · 08/07/2025 11:56

maltravers · 08/07/2025 11:51

He comes across so badly there. What happened to accountability, transparency, concern for young female Londoners? Descending to stupid word games when young girls are being raped and abused. Shame on him.

It's not a word game.

He considers her to be racist and wanted her to prove him right so he could denigrate her more. He then has more proof of islamophobia to support the proposed law against it.

It is like the soviet union.

Extravirginolive · 08/07/2025 11:57

LegoNinjago · 08/07/2025 11:56

Absolutely this

Men obviously!

EasternStandard · 08/07/2025 12:05

JazzyJelly · 08/07/2025 11:14

@POWNewcastleEastWallsendthanks for posting that transcript. What a disingenuous, cowardly DARVO, pretending that Hall wouldn't say what she meant about rape gangs when she spelled it out repeatedly!

He's a goady fucker. I can’t believe he’s enabled with his misogyny.

Datun · 08/07/2025 12:32

moto748e · 08/07/2025 11:22

I assumed that Khan was actually trying to goad her into saying, Pakistani men in that transcript.

Edited

Yes, at first I just thought he was being a normal slippery fucker politician.

But it went on so long, he was obviously wanting her to say Pakistani grooming gangs.

I'm not sure she grasped that, though. Because she appeared to think it was about her not being able to say rape gangs, but having to say grooming gangs instead.

either way, it was a terrible conversation.

He simply wouldn't answer the bloody question to the extent it made him look unhinged. And when he finally did answer, he didn't address the question she actually asked.

It was a prime example of exactly what went wrong in Rotherham.

LegoNinjago · 08/07/2025 12:38

Extravirginolive · 08/07/2025 11:57

Men obviously!

I’m so angry i haven’t even noticed your typo🤣

LegoNinjago · 08/07/2025 12:43

Datun · 08/07/2025 12:32

Yes, at first I just thought he was being a normal slippery fucker politician.

But it went on so long, he was obviously wanting her to say Pakistani grooming gangs.

I'm not sure she grasped that, though. Because she appeared to think it was about her not being able to say rape gangs, but having to say grooming gangs instead.

either way, it was a terrible conversation.

He simply wouldn't answer the bloody question to the extent it made him look unhinged. And when he finally did answer, he didn't address the question she actually asked.

It was a prime example of exactly what went wrong in Rotherham.

I’m pretty sure Ms Hall grasped that. Its admirable how she kept her cool. Especially when he continued to address her as “she”. Whilst literally looking at her.

What a slimy misogynistic little weasel he is.

Cosmosforbreakfast · 08/07/2025 12:44

Another nasty little misogynist trying to trample all over women's rights. He doesn't give a shit about Transpeople, he's just using them in his war on women. If he genuinely cared he'd campaign for trans spaces, trans toilets, trans dressing rooms, trans locker rooms, trans categories in sport etc. Instead he's just keeping up with the 'forcibly insert men into women's spaces' campaign.

Tallisker · 08/07/2025 12:48

Every time the slimy fucker is mentioned, I recall that exchange (transcript above) and despise him more than I thought possible. And yes, I too thought he was trying to goad her into saying Pakistani men. Ugh, makes my skin crawl.

Kinsters · 08/07/2025 12:54

What would his reaction have been had she mentioned the heritage of the men involved in Rotherham? Is that another forbidden subject?

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 08/07/2025 12:55

Rightsraptor · 08/07/2025 10:17

What an utter fool the man is.

Thanks for the transcription, @POW.
Why was he talking about Ms Hall in the 3rd person when she was addressing him directly - is that a formal meeting etiquette thing?

"Why was he talking about Ms Hall in the 3rd person when she was addressing him directly - is that a formal meeting etiquette thing?"

It is even more than that. "Speaking through the Chair" (that sounds sooo bizarre!) is a convention that might be in the Standing Orders of a committee or meeting.

It aims to enable the Chair to retain control of the meeting and deter participants from addressing each other directly. When it breaks down you can get people essentially having a private conversation in public or speaking over each other or shouting at each other.

I used to regularly chair biggish union meetings of 30-50 mainly men and these conventions help participants to self-regulate but can also be called upon by the Chair if order needs to be restored. It is better when they are written into Standing Orders so everyone knows the rules.

It impossible to interpret the formality of interactions between SK, SH and the Chair in that clip without knowing how things normally go in those meetings, ie. whether SK and others normally conduct themselves so formally, or whether SH's manner of debate is more representative; whether the Chair is normally so "hands off" or if he was giving SH unusual latitude to question SK directly.

IMHO what is more revealing than the transcript is watching the video to see how SK conducts himself.

It is inconceivable that he does not understand what SH is talking about.

Whatever his motivation, he plays it completely dead-pan and takes no responsibility for the "misunderstanding" and his claimed lack of comprehension.

It is obvious that SK is lying and being disrespectful to SH. He is doing this "through the Chair" but the Chair does not intervene.

The Chairperson is either complicit or is afraid of getting drawn in to what I suspect is SK's trap, ie.saying any of the words that SK knows SH is avoiding: Pakistani, Muslim or South Asian.

If those words had been said, would they have broken the spell? Or would SK have continued "playing the daft lad"? Would it have triggered accusations of racism and Islamophobia, or a diversion into statistics?

It is hard not to see SH as playing safe in order to avoid SK taking the chance to express outrage, smear her - and still not answer the question.

Without knowing the exact dynamics and who all the parties are, including everyone else at the meeting, it is a horrifying illustration of the local council and police culture that allowed the Grooming/Rape Gangs to thrive for decades.

It could not be better scripted and acted because the script writer and the actor playing SK would be excoriated for racist stereotyping.

What strikes me as misogynistic is the studied, deniable insolence in the way SK responds to SH's questions. However, maybe he does the same with men in positions of authority who are required and entitled to hold him to account?

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 08/07/2025 12:56

Hard-fought for rights!? He really has no idea what he’s talking about. What a huge disappointment he is.

KnottyAuty · 08/07/2025 12:57

I'm getting a bit fed up with this. We are now 3 months on from a Supreme Court ruling which confirmed that women's sex-based rights had been unlawfully eroded for over 10 years. I was surprised by the initial push back and ignoring of the female POV but to have our elected representatives speaking like this in the media and sending emails like this to constituents is intolerable. And it's starting to look a lot like blatant discrimination now. These people might not understand that yet, but they are obliged to act with a degree of impartiality and they aren't allowed to discriminate against different groups - saying that trans people are being treated like a political football and there is a cruel culture war - that sounds a lot like an accusation towards those with GC beliefs? Not OK. I feel a series of complaint letters coming on... who can help me draft one?

ETA the inaction regarding the SC ruling should also be covered as well as these inflammatory statements

https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/glacorporatecomplaintspolicy2019.pdf

viques · 08/07/2025 12:58

Datun · 08/07/2025 12:32

Yes, at first I just thought he was being a normal slippery fucker politician.

But it went on so long, he was obviously wanting her to say Pakistani grooming gangs.

I'm not sure she grasped that, though. Because she appeared to think it was about her not being able to say rape gangs, but having to say grooming gangs instead.

either way, it was a terrible conversation.

He simply wouldn't answer the bloody question to the extent it made him look unhinged. And when he finally did answer, he didn't address the question she actually asked.

It was a prime example of exactly what went wrong in Rotherham.

I think she knew exactly what he was trying to get her to say, because then he could have pulled the old politicians trick of pointing in the other direction and saying “ Look, there’s a racist squirrel.”

KnottyAuty · 08/07/2025 13:08

KnottyAuty · 08/07/2025 12:57

I'm getting a bit fed up with this. We are now 3 months on from a Supreme Court ruling which confirmed that women's sex-based rights had been unlawfully eroded for over 10 years. I was surprised by the initial push back and ignoring of the female POV but to have our elected representatives speaking like this in the media and sending emails like this to constituents is intolerable. And it's starting to look a lot like blatant discrimination now. These people might not understand that yet, but they are obliged to act with a degree of impartiality and they aren't allowed to discriminate against different groups - saying that trans people are being treated like a political football and there is a cruel culture war - that sounds a lot like an accusation towards those with GC beliefs? Not OK. I feel a series of complaint letters coming on... who can help me draft one?

ETA the inaction regarding the SC ruling should also be covered as well as these inflammatory statements

https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/glacorporatecomplaintspolicy2019.pdf

Edited

Sorry - cancel that this is the Code of Conduct which applies to the Mayor
https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/governance-and-spending/promoting-good-governance/high-standards-conduct#:~:text=Members%20and%20staff.-,Codes%20of%20conduct,behaviour%20will%20be%20dealt%20with.

plus the Nolan Principles:
The Seven Principles of Public Life (also known as the Nolan Principles) apply to anyone who works as a public office-holder. This includes all those who are elected or appointed to public office, nationally and locally, and all people appointed to work in the Civil Service, local government, the police, courts and probation services, non-departmental public bodies (NDPBs), and in the health, education, social and care services. All public office-holders are both servants of the public and stewards of public resources. The principles also apply to all those in other sectors delivering public services.
1.1 Selflessness
Holders of public office should act solely in terms of the public interest.
1.2 Integrity
Holders of public office must avoid placing themselves under any obligation to people or organisations that might try inappropriately to influence them in their work. They should not act or take decisions in order to gain financial or other material benefits for themselves, their family, or their friends. They must declare and resolve any interests and relationships.
1.3 Objectivity
Holders of public office must act and take decisions impartially, fairly and on merit, using the best evidence and without discrimination or bias.
1.4 Accountability
Holders of public office are accountable to the public for their decisions and actions and must submit themselves to the scrutiny necessary to ensure this.
1.5 Openness
Holders of public office should act and take decisions in an open and transparent manner. Information should not be withheld from the public unless there are clear and lawful reasons for so doing.
1.6 Honesty
Holders of public office should be truthful.
1.7 Leadership
Holders of public office should exhibit these principles in their own behaviour and treat others with respect. They should actively promote and robustly support the principles and challenge poor behaviour wherever it occurs.

High standards of conduct

Find out about how we promote high standards of ethical conduct by the Mayor, London Assembly Members and staff.

https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/governance-and-spending/promoting-good-governance/high-standards-conduct#:~:text=Members%20and%20staff.-,Codes%20of%20conduct,behaviour%20will%20be%20dealt%20with.