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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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7
PriOn1 · 04/07/2025 18:27

WandaSiri · 04/07/2025 15:07

Allison Bailey has probably had decades of being doubted and disrespected, so I don't blame her if she can be a bit tetchy. She is brave and honest.

Not only that, but she seems to have been using the practice for years without significant problems.

Sounds like the practice changed hands and became less familiar/reliable at the worst possible time for Allison, given she was going through awful bullying at work and then an incredibly stressful court case.

BeeSouriante · 04/07/2025 18:30

Absolute insanity that this even was accepted, no matter won.

This must be appealed, it's beyond crazy that 'gender critical' beliefs have got far more privilege than any other - it's not even about the unscientific nonsense that underlies them or that they've been extended to any kind of hate, but this is getting into 'thought crime' territory.

'race realists / critical' people must be licking their lips.

Boiledbeetle · 04/07/2025 18:32

Seeth and cope bee. Seeth and cope.

spannasaurus · 04/07/2025 18:35

You can't just appeal a case because you lose. You need to show there has been a legal error.

BeeSouriante · 04/07/2025 18:35

Honestly I swear that so many of you in your seething hatred of trans people would gladly see the UK turn into MAGAland - as one of the GCs said (?Stock) - (cisgender) women are just collateral for this terrible, evil movement.

womanbornn · 04/07/2025 18:36

BeeSouriante · 04/07/2025 18:35

Honestly I swear that so many of you in your seething hatred of trans people would gladly see the UK turn into MAGAland - as one of the GCs said (?Stock) - (cisgender) women are just collateral for this terrible, evil movement.

terrible, evil? LOL.
This sounds just like India Willoughby. Is it you?

spannasaurus · 04/07/2025 18:36

I don't hate trans people I just want men to stay out of female spaces and for children not to suffer medical harm

PlasticAcrobat · 04/07/2025 18:43

Sounds like the practice changed hands and became less familiar/reliable at the worst possible time for Allison, given she was going through awful bullying at work and then an incredibly stressful court case.

A lot of lovely independent vet practices have been taken over by grubby chain vets owned by private equity. Standards have gone down as a result and have left a lot of clients seething. So Allison Bailey might well have been coming across a lot of very annoying changes in her own practice.

@BeeSouriante , why the force teaming of sex realism and race realism? I have seen you do this on a couple of threads. It is almost as if you are aware that sex realism isn't unreasonable in itself and the only way you can smear it is by means of a gratuitous invocation of something different.

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 04/07/2025 18:44

CriticalCondition · 04/07/2025 16:04

I think this case is another illustration of how 'directness' in women is interpreted as rudeness. I'm so over having to dress up perfectly straightforward and reasonable requests with fluff and gratitude as if I'm asking a huge favour. Men don't. They just ask. And get.

They ask, they get, and they don't get chided for being 'prickly' or 'difficult' 🙄

teawamutu · 04/07/2025 18:46

womanbornn · 04/07/2025 18:36

terrible, evil? LOL.
This sounds just like India Willoughby. Is it you?

I'd assumed it was Butters back in a new guise tbh.

Sounded a bit calmer for a while but now...

Theeyeballsinthesky · 04/07/2025 18:51

BeeSouriante · 04/07/2025 18:35

Honestly I swear that so many of you in your seething hatred of trans people would gladly see the UK turn into MAGAland - as one of the GCs said (?Stock) - (cisgender) women are just collateral for this terrible, evil movement.

Now you’re just being a silly billy again aren’t you

Theeyeballsinthesky · 04/07/2025 18:52

teawamutu · 04/07/2025 18:46

I'd assumed it was Butters back in a new guise tbh.

Sounded a bit calmer for a while but now...

Yeh me too! butterflies…bees….same old rhetoric

Bannedontherun · 04/07/2025 19:18

SidewaysOtter · 04/07/2025 18:20

Why aren’t we? Have TKmax said that?

CEO of TKmax publicly declared that TERFs were not welcome in his shops.

potpourree · 04/07/2025 19:23

One sex is responsible for all rapes and nearly all sexual assault. When people equate single-sex spaces with race segregation, they are never very forthcoming about which race is the equivalent in their analogy.

Because they're either lacking in basic critical thinking skills, horrifically racist, or both.

DefineHappy · 04/07/2025 19:31

Bee -
How about you stop with the accusations of:
hatred
racism
MAGA alliance
etc?

It is getting old and tired, and is making you seem even more desperate and deluded. Truly.

(edited to include the poster the comment was directed to).

potpourree · 04/07/2025 19:33

PlasticAcrobat · 04/07/2025 11:55

I love that the judgement begins with "Jonty is an Airedale Terrier...". Makes me feel like I am settling into a delightful Ladybird children's story.

This! I'm just sitting down to read it!

MyAmpleSheep · 04/07/2025 19:44

BeeSouriante · 04/07/2025 18:30

Absolute insanity that this even was accepted, no matter won.

This must be appealed, it's beyond crazy that 'gender critical' beliefs have got far more privilege than any other - it's not even about the unscientific nonsense that underlies them or that they've been extended to any kind of hate, but this is getting into 'thought crime' territory.

'race realists / critical' people must be licking their lips.

Difficult to see the grounds of appeal. The judge got the law correct; and the standard to appeal on a matter of fact is astronomically high.

The major sin was that the practice didn't follow its own policy. Following policy is really important for organizations as it shields them from claims like this. Once you go off script it gets very hard to defend a claim when there's even a whiff of discrimination.

I don't see that GC beliefs here got any more privilege than another protected characteristics. I can quite see that a trans-identifying customer who was difficult with front-line staff and whose service was subsequently terminated wouldn't need to find very much evidence of anti-trans bias to make a claim of unlawful discrimination stick.

As the judge wrote (para 117 of the judgement):

Discrimination law has a different burden of proof than most types of litigation. The first stage is for a claimant to prove on the balance of probabilities facts from which a court could conclude, in the absence of an adequate explanation, that the defendant has committed an act of unlawful discrimination.

Note could not should or must. It's a lowish bar.

Then in 118 he goes on:

If the burden of proof shifts, the defendant must show that it did not commit those acts and [or?] that the treatment was not on a prohibited ground

Adhere closely to written policies in all cases, but especially cases where you know a potential claimant has a protected characteristic that you don't like, and especially especially when the claimant is a barrister with recent court experience (even as a claimant) in the law surrounding discrimination - and you'll be ok.

In this case the protected characteristic was belief, but the lesson applies equally to all protected characteristics.

KnottyAuty · 04/07/2025 19:45

EdithStourton · 04/07/2025 15:33

We changed vets recently and there was no 'termination letter' - just a few emails and phone calls to confirm that we were ending the practice plan for wormer etc, and where to send the records. They booted AB because they wanted to.

Well done, Allison. It takes a lot of grit to follow through a case like that.

Quite!

The letter sent in spite after she’d asked for her dog’s records to be transferred!? There would have been no case to answer without that letter - I bet Ms Cook is in trouble behind the scenes for bringing all this down on her employers and discriminating against AB in their name. What an idiot!

MyAmpleSheep · 04/07/2025 19:46

Shall we have a sweepstake on the level of damages? I'm going to vote for £2000.

DrSpartacularsMagnificentOctopus · 04/07/2025 19:57

BeeSouriante · 04/07/2025 18:30

Absolute insanity that this even was accepted, no matter won.

This must be appealed, it's beyond crazy that 'gender critical' beliefs have got far more privilege than any other - it's not even about the unscientific nonsense that underlies them or that they've been extended to any kind of hate, but this is getting into 'thought crime' territory.

'race realists / critical' people must be licking their lips.

You're being a tad hyperbolic.

If a person was refused service for not holding GC beliefs they would be equally protected. This ruling therefore benefits (in that it sets an example, despite it not setting a legal precedent) anyone who may suffer discrimination via refusal of service as a result of their protected beliefs, whatever those beliefs, and whether one agrees with them or not.

MrsKypp · 04/07/2025 20:04

Excellent news

potpourree · 04/07/2025 20:06

" The reply was “if you say so”. Ms Cook understood the question and was not prepared to answer"

What a strange reaction! We've never seen that before!

"The case took a curious turn"....

PlasticAcrobat · 04/07/2025 20:16

"The case took a curious turn"....

The Curious Case of the Dog Owner in the Right

BottomsByTheirTops · 04/07/2025 20:18

I’ve just posted the link to Allison’s news on a veterinary social media site and I think it’s been deleted 🙄

lnks · 04/07/2025 20:24

Why is @BeeSouriante not banned on here for trolling threads. He’s not posting in good faith at all.