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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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7
Maaate · 04/07/2025 15:09

It's a good job that how 'nice' someone is has absolutely no relevance on whether you can discriminate against them because of their legally held beliefs 🙄

SidewaysOtter · 04/07/2025 15:33

Well, the story took an unexpected turn half way through the judgment narrative!

So much disingenuous "don't remember" or "wasn't aware" or "don't have an opinion on the matter" - the parallels with the previous Garden Court case are such that I'm amazed no-one reversed into a bin...

EdithStourton · 04/07/2025 15:33

We changed vets recently and there was no 'termination letter' - just a few emails and phone calls to confirm that we were ending the practice plan for wormer etc, and where to send the records. They booted AB because they wanted to.

Well done, Allison. It takes a lot of grit to follow through a case like that.

DefineHappy · 04/07/2025 15:33

I’m shocked that Chris hasn’t been back to rage against the findings….

😁

EdithStourton · 04/07/2025 15:34

DefineHappy · 04/07/2025 15:33

I’m shocked that Chris hasn’t been back to rage against the findings….

😁

He's probably too busy 😆

RedNine · 04/07/2025 15:37

MarieDeGournay · 04/07/2025 13:04

My understanding is that it is a significant victory because its the first ever judgment that relates to GC beliefs+ the provision of goods and services.

Thank you Marie.

Boiledbeetle · 04/07/2025 15:42

Just seen this, fantastic!

I'm going to read the judgement later.

CriticalCondition · 04/07/2025 15:46

The judgment is a cracking read.

Hats off to the judge who appears to be a shrewd and sensitive human being. And an excellent judge of character.

As an aside, I found the stuff on memories, how plastic they are and how they get rewritten on every recollection very interesting.

TheAutumnCrow · 04/07/2025 15:47

Maaate · 04/07/2025 15:09

It's a good job that how 'nice' someone is has absolutely no relevance on whether you can discriminate against them because of their legally held beliefs 🙄

Bang on.

I don’t expect to have to pass a ‘Miss Congeniality’ audition to access essential goods and services.

CriticalCondition · 04/07/2025 16:04

I think this case is another illustration of how 'directness' in women is interpreted as rudeness. I'm so over having to dress up perfectly straightforward and reasonable requests with fluff and gratitude as if I'm asking a huge favour. Men don't. They just ask. And get.

EmptyPocketBlues · 04/07/2025 16:08

PriOn1 · 04/07/2025 14:16

If she was already leaving them, then sending her a termination letter was unnecessary. Most vet practices would simply heave a sigh of relief and hope the awkward client didn’t decide to return, I should imagine. Sacking her as a client, when she had already indicated she was leaving seems like an act of spite. I wonder how much it will cost them.

I think she was asking for £25,000

SidewaysOtter · 04/07/2025 16:13

CriticalCondition · 04/07/2025 16:04

I think this case is another illustration of how 'directness' in women is interpreted as rudeness. I'm so over having to dress up perfectly straightforward and reasonable requests with fluff and gratitude as if I'm asking a huge favour. Men don't. They just ask. And get.

I completely agree. I’ve been told I’m sometimes strident and direct but I bet a man would just be seen as confident.

I also suspect that sometimes “legitimate criticism” is dismissed as “rudeness” out of defensiveness or a desire not to have to address the issue at hand.

womanbornn · 04/07/2025 16:34

this will be a wake up call for most organisations.
They’ve been lied to for years and years by pressure groups and actively encouraged to ignore the law.
They truly believed their positions were bulletproof.

DrSpartacularsMagnificentOctopus · 04/07/2025 16:36

Well done to Alison.

I imagine there was a considerable element here of her being assertive being misread as being aggressive. I imagine too that I'm not alone on having experienced that too.

This was one the best judgements to read though. The judge has a fabulous writing style.

InjuryMyArse · 04/07/2025 16:56

Keep those difficult wins coming, Difficult Wims! 💜

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 04/07/2025 16:58

Well done Allison. I’m a lawyer and we do tend to be direct (barrister probably more so). I have a vague question whether her race also played an issue, there are some grim tropes about angry black women.

For the lawyers amongst us, the opening line of the judgment “Jonty is an Airedale Terrier” has wonderful echoes of Lord Denning.

PepeParapluie · 04/07/2025 17:12

Well done Allison and a good result. It’s interesting as I expected a bit more of a smoking gun type comment somewhere regarding the difference in beliefs, but there was no such thing. If there was such a comment there would probably have been a settlement to be fair.

It should be a warning to organisations who pussyfoot around a small number of employees who hold strong views and try and pull strings as a result. I expect there are quite a lot of those who should take note!

FofB · 04/07/2025 17:25

"She said that Ms Bailey was rude to the extent that for the first time Ms Guerra did not feel sorry for Ms Bailey losing her pet. She says that she is normally very empathetic to those in that situation"

Shitty behaviour

TheAutumnCrow · 04/07/2025 17:49

EmptyPocketBlues · 04/07/2025 16:08

I think she was asking for £25,000

I honestly don't care if she gets a tenner.

It's such an important win on principle.

Imnobody4 · 04/07/2025 17:51

This is a welcome ruling. Will it have an impact on the proposed 'protection of staff from harassment bill'

Pubs could curb free speech to avoid legal risks under Labour’s Workers’ Rights Bill – The Free Speech Union https://share.google/xzcjbBhEODOaExmpn

The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) cautioned ministers that new rules to protect employees from harassment by customers could “disproportionately curtail” freedom of expression, particularly when applied to “overheard conversations.” The watchdog warned that employers, unsure of the law, might suppress lawful speech to avoid liability.

Pubs could curb free speech to avoid legal risks under Labour’s Workers’ Rights Bill – The Free Speech Union

Customer-facing businesses could BAN talk on contentious topics—like Christians sharing their beliefs, or gender-critical feminists defending women’s rights—to avoid falling foul of Labour’s workers’ rights reforms, warns the UK’s equality watchdog.

https://freespeechunion.org/pubs-could-curb-free-speech-to-avoid-legal-risks-under-labours-workers-rights-bill/

NotMyRealAccount · 04/07/2025 17:58

Really good news. I'm so glad we've got women like Allison Bailey who won't take shit, won't be fobbed off, and won't go away without a fuss.

Bannedontherun · 04/07/2025 18:08

I am off to to TKmax tomorrow in suitably GC attire since apparently we are not welcome there.

TheAutumnCrow · 04/07/2025 18:09

DrSpartacularsMagnificentOctopus · 04/07/2025 16:36

Well done to Alison.

I imagine there was a considerable element here of her being assertive being misread as being aggressive. I imagine too that I'm not alone on having experienced that too.

This was one the best judgements to read though. The judge has a fabulous writing style.

I imagine a lot of women, making a point clearly, calmly and assertively, have been told at least once in their personal and/or professional lives to 'please stop shouting at me'. Oldest trick in the book.

SidewaysOtter · 04/07/2025 18:20

Bannedontherun · 04/07/2025 18:08

I am off to to TKmax tomorrow in suitably GC attire since apparently we are not welcome there.

Why aren’t we? Have TKmax said that?

Boiledbeetle · 04/07/2025 18:23

TheAutumnCrow · 04/07/2025 18:09

I imagine a lot of women, making a point clearly, calmly and assertively, have been told at least once in their personal and/or professional lives to 'please stop shouting at me'. Oldest trick in the book.

I got accused of shouting at someone once and it was used against me because I admitted shouting. Why yes I did shout, to the person who should have been stood at my door but was instead sat in a parked car nowhere near my house. If I hadn't shouted he wouldn't have bloody heard me. And if he'd been doing his sodding job properly I wouldn't have had to shout in the first place!

You really can't win!!

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