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BottomsByTheirTops · 06/07/2025 11:13

BeaTwix · 06/07/2025 10:52

I deal with healthcare complaints.

AB comes across as a standard person who expects an organisation to do what they say they will do e.g pursue insurance companies, transfer vaccination records etc and communicate any significant changes in policy well e.g changing the anti-worming treatments they stock.

Sounds to me like the customer facing staff need a bit of training, and asked to think through situations from the client side.

I suspect I also come across like this. I've written a vast number of complaints to financial institutions recently about their handling of a Power of Attorney. I'm not remotely aggressive but I am assertive. The "branch manager" who told me last week that "policy" prevented him doing something I'd been advised in writing he could do by the central team in his institution had better have been able to find the policy. As my complaint is incoming.

In my workplace I often see accusations that more junior staff are treated badly and senior staff not. I actually think it's because as senior staff we manage expectations better. If things are going wrong in theatre and there will be a delay to the next case I often ring the ward and ask the staff there to explain the situation to the patient and offer a drink. In such situations no-one from theatre can leave as we tend to be busy. Quite often there is a refusal to do this as the patient will be upset ... but the end result if I don't find anyone willing to do this the patients get upset and then kick off because they were told their operation would be around 11am and it's now 2pm and no one has told them anything.

Whereas in my experience if you are honest with people and keep them informed (or even simply tell them you can't estimate when their operation will be due to the ongoing situation) they deal with it better and appreciate the candidness. I saw it with one of my friends. Her Dad was having cataract surgery and still hadn't gone down at 4pm. She was beside herself as she thought he would be cancelled. If someone had simply explained that the operating list was running until 8pm and he was last she would have relaxed.

Absolutely agree on this handling of expectations.
I have reception staff frequently taking calls for me and telling clients that Bottoms will ring by such a time or do such a thing that I evidently won’t be able to achieve. Then people get pissed off due to unmet expectations - which then I have to clear up.
Because staff want to avoid a mildly difficult communication, they tell people what they want to hear.

Arran2024 · 06/07/2025 11:24

Misspotterer · 06/07/2025 09:14

She was not sacked as a client for her gender beliefs, I can't imagine how that would even come up at a vet consultation. She was sacked for being repeatedly rude and threatening to staff. I have that on good authority. People like her are the reason vets and nurses are leaving the industry in their droves. Some practices will pander to abusive clients whilst their staff burnout and leave. Others have decent management and zero tolerance policy.
Vets are private businesses and can sack any client they want anytime they want. I can't see where she thinks this is going.

They sent the letter "sacking her" after she left, which is bizarre. Only 2 clients had ever been removed previously and that was for much worse behaviour. They didnt give her a warning. It all sounds very badly managed at their end.

AnnaMagnani · 06/07/2025 11:30

BeaTwix · 06/07/2025 10:52

I deal with healthcare complaints.

AB comes across as a standard person who expects an organisation to do what they say they will do e.g pursue insurance companies, transfer vaccination records etc and communicate any significant changes in policy well e.g changing the anti-worming treatments they stock.

Sounds to me like the customer facing staff need a bit of training, and asked to think through situations from the client side.

I suspect I also come across like this. I've written a vast number of complaints to financial institutions recently about their handling of a Power of Attorney. I'm not remotely aggressive but I am assertive. The "branch manager" who told me last week that "policy" prevented him doing something I'd been advised in writing he could do by the central team in his institution had better have been able to find the policy. As my complaint is incoming.

In my workplace I often see accusations that more junior staff are treated badly and senior staff not. I actually think it's because as senior staff we manage expectations better. If things are going wrong in theatre and there will be a delay to the next case I often ring the ward and ask the staff there to explain the situation to the patient and offer a drink. In such situations no-one from theatre can leave as we tend to be busy. Quite often there is a refusal to do this as the patient will be upset ... but the end result if I don't find anyone willing to do this the patients get upset and then kick off because they were told their operation would be around 11am and it's now 2pm and no one has told them anything.

Whereas in my experience if you are honest with people and keep them informed (or even simply tell them you can't estimate when their operation will be due to the ongoing situation) they deal with it better and appreciate the candidness. I saw it with one of my friends. Her Dad was having cataract surgery and still hadn't gone down at 4pm. She was beside herself as she thought he would be cancelled. If someone had simply explained that the operating list was running until 8pm and he was last she would have relaxed.

Absolutely this.

My DM was recently in hospital and needed emergency surgery. I kept phoning to check she'd gone to theatre and was being told there had been a mix up and they didn't know when she was going.

Unsurprisingly I politely started to lose it.

After some ringing around the Matron for the service called me and explained my DM needed specific equipment in theatre, this wasn't there all the day and so she would be going in one of these slots.

If I'd been told this in the beginning, I wouldn't have lost the plot in the first place.

MyAmpleSheep · 06/07/2025 12:10

Misspotterer · 06/07/2025 09:14

She was not sacked as a client for her gender beliefs, I can't imagine how that would even come up at a vet consultation. She was sacked for being repeatedly rude and threatening to staff. I have that on good authority. People like her are the reason vets and nurses are leaving the industry in their droves. Some practices will pander to abusive clients whilst their staff burnout and leave. Others have decent management and zero tolerance policy.
Vets are private businesses and can sack any client they want anytime they want. I can't see where she thinks this is going.

Vets are private businesses and can sack any client they want anytime they want as long as no part of the decision to do so is because of a protected characteristic of the client such as their sex, sexual orientation, race, belief, age, gender reassignment, disability, being married or in a civil partnership, or being pregnant or on maternity leave, unless a statutory exemption applies.

Fixed that for you.

TheAutumnCrow · 06/07/2025 12:14

Oh @Misspotterer, you are such a wag Grin

Please come back and explain how Allison really actually lost this on a deeply technical level.

CriticalCondition · 06/07/2025 12:47

Vets are private businesses and can sack any client they want anytime they want

My solicitor, my dentist, my accountant, my hairdresser, my builder, my yoga teacher, my butcher and baker and candlestick maker are all private businesses.

So they could 'sack' or refuse to serve me because I was gay, or black, or wore a crucifix or used a wheelchair??

I think this poster really needs to do some reading.

SternJoyousBee · 06/07/2025 13:55

BeeSouriante · 04/07/2025 18:35

Honestly I swear that so many of you in your seething hatred of trans people would gladly see the UK turn into MAGAland - as one of the GCs said (?Stock) - (cisgender) women are just collateral for this terrible, evil movement.

How is life of the Planet of Hyperbole?

PriOn1 · 06/07/2025 14:19

BottomsByTheirTops · 06/07/2025 10:58

@PriOn1thank you for your reply - we have communicated before, I had a different user name.
May I pm you?

WRT the censorship of this topic within veterinary circles, I think that’s why I’m concerned. As wiser women have pointed out, once this ideology gets into an organisation, it paralyses it from within, preventing sensible discussion. It’s the very fact of that ‘take over’ that bothers me rather than gender woo per se. What another wise woman (can’t remember who) calls ‘An affront to reason’.

Of course. You can PM any time, though now I’m using my phone, it might take me longer to notice.

Mumofteenandtween · 06/07/2025 15:21

CompleteGinasaur · 06/07/2025 09:07

I just presumed that a combination of Allison's training as a barrister and the backbone of steel she must have developed to not only get through but triumph over not only the abuse she suffered in childhood but the racism, sexism and classism she must have come up against on every step of her academic career and pupillage have forged her into someone very unlikely to tolerate any kind of patronage or condescension ever again. Add into this the fact that levels of self assertion that would be perceived as perfectly ordinary coming from a man are experienced as arrogance and rudeness when expressed by a woman and I can see where a bigot might want to put her back in her box. Multiply this by whatever factor of outrage is added in because she is not only a woman, but a black woman, and a lesbian at that, and the badly camouflaged frothing rage that seemed to be the modus operandi at the practice in their dealings with her becomes understandable. Not in any way excusable, but understandable.

Show quote history

Alison pretty obviously has the type of personality that in a man would be described as “forceful”, “assertive”, “powerful” and “a strong leader”.

Would I want to be besties with her? Probably not. I don’t particularly like the men I work with who are like that. Do I recognise that it is a personality type that is good at “getting stuff done” - yes, absolutely. And so do I respect the personality type - yes I do.

SternJoyousBee · 06/07/2025 15:37

Mumofteenandtween · 06/07/2025 15:21

Alison pretty obviously has the type of personality that in a man would be described as “forceful”, “assertive”, “powerful” and “a strong leader”.

Would I want to be besties with her? Probably not. I don’t particularly like the men I work with who are like that. Do I recognise that it is a personality type that is good at “getting stuff done” - yes, absolutely. And so do I respect the personality type - yes I do.

Show quote history

And interesting that in the examples provided the service was lacking from the business. Sending the full vet record instead if the vaccine details isn’t trivial.

Mumofteenandtween · 06/07/2025 15:40

SternJoyousBee · 06/07/2025 15:37

And interesting that in the examples provided the service was lacking from the business. Sending the full vet record instead if the vaccine details isn’t trivial.

Show quote history

I’ve thought of another phrase - “doesn’t suffer fools gladly”.

Lins77 · 06/07/2025 15:50

BeaTwix · 06/07/2025 10:52

I deal with healthcare complaints.

AB comes across as a standard person who expects an organisation to do what they say they will do e.g pursue insurance companies, transfer vaccination records etc and communicate any significant changes in policy well e.g changing the anti-worming treatments they stock.

Sounds to me like the customer facing staff need a bit of training, and asked to think through situations from the client side.

I suspect I also come across like this. I've written a vast number of complaints to financial institutions recently about their handling of a Power of Attorney. I'm not remotely aggressive but I am assertive. The "branch manager" who told me last week that "policy" prevented him doing something I'd been advised in writing he could do by the central team in his institution had better have been able to find the policy. As my complaint is incoming.

In my workplace I often see accusations that more junior staff are treated badly and senior staff not. I actually think it's because as senior staff we manage expectations better. If things are going wrong in theatre and there will be a delay to the next case I often ring the ward and ask the staff there to explain the situation to the patient and offer a drink. In such situations no-one from theatre can leave as we tend to be busy. Quite often there is a refusal to do this as the patient will be upset ... but the end result if I don't find anyone willing to do this the patients get upset and then kick off because they were told their operation would be around 11am and it's now 2pm and no one has told them anything.

Whereas in my experience if you are honest with people and keep them informed (or even simply tell them you can't estimate when their operation will be due to the ongoing situation) they deal with it better and appreciate the candidness. I saw it with one of my friends. Her Dad was having cataract surgery and still hadn't gone down at 4pm. She was beside herself as she thought he would be cancelled. If someone had simply explained that the operating list was running until 8pm and he was last she would have relaxed.

Absolutely agree with all of this (I also deal with complaints). Managing expectations is key. Most people - not all, of course - will be reasonable if you are transparent and honest with them, apologise when it's appropriate to do so, and follow through on what you've agreed to do.

anyolddinosaur · 06/07/2025 16:22

The practise managed to expose themselves as incompetent, uncaring towards customers (changing medication, uncaring where a loved pet was pts) and bigots.

@Misspotterer The law of defamation applies to the internet and you are making comments without evidence against a barrister. You cant rely on being anonymous if Alison decided she wanted to sue you. However you could say in your defence that only fools believe randoms on the internet so the damages should be low. If you are lucky Alison will decide you are not worth pursuing. You might still want to report your own post for removal.

MintIceCream2 · 06/07/2025 16:27

Misspotterer · 06/07/2025 09:14

She was not sacked as a client for her gender beliefs, I can't imagine how that would even come up at a vet consultation. She was sacked for being repeatedly rude and threatening to staff. I have that on good authority. People like her are the reason vets and nurses are leaving the industry in their droves. Some practices will pander to abusive clients whilst their staff burnout and leave. Others have decent management and zero tolerance policy.
Vets are private businesses and can sack any client they want anytime they want. I can't see where she thinks this is going.

Ummm..... @Misspotterer The COURT found that she was sacked for her gender critical beliefs. That is why she WON. She was not sacked for being 'rude' at all. Check your facts. SHE WON!

KnottyAuty · 06/07/2025 16:27

CompleteGinasaur · 06/07/2025 09:07

I just presumed that a combination of Allison's training as a barrister and the backbone of steel she must have developed to not only get through but triumph over not only the abuse she suffered in childhood but the racism, sexism and classism she must have come up against on every step of her academic career and pupillage have forged her into someone very unlikely to tolerate any kind of patronage or condescension ever again. Add into this the fact that levels of self assertion that would be perceived as perfectly ordinary coming from a man are experienced as arrogance and rudeness when expressed by a woman and I can see where a bigot might want to put her back in her box. Multiply this by whatever factor of outrage is added in because she is not only a woman, but a black woman, and a lesbian at that, and the badly camouflaged frothing rage that seemed to be the modus operandi at the practice in their dealings with her becomes understandable. Not in any way excusable, but understandable.

Show quote history

That is a good point. We heard a lot about how AB was reported as rude but how were the reception staff if they considered her to be a bigot. We’ve all spoken to service people who “calmly” go through the motions and say the right things while giving you the RBF/dead eye. It never makes me feel warmly towards them and I always try to smile and be kindly to jobs facing the public because they aren’t easy

MintIceCream2 · 06/07/2025 16:30

PriOn1 · 06/07/2025 10:08

Sacking is the standard term when a vet practice tells a client they will no longer be provided with veterinary services.

Show quote history

Yes it's like a petulant "I quit! No you can't quit because you are fired!" response.

Lins77 · 06/07/2025 17:58

The judgment made interesting reading. How strange that they all went to the same support group. I wonder what it was? (I know - none of my business.)

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