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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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32
DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 18:59

Christmasmorale · 19/06/2025 18:55

Unfortunately they kicked in on this thread. Anyone with ADHD will know that was fatal to my chances at productivity today. This thread is now a focus of my meds.

I will try my best to listen to you though because I get absolutely no joy from being called names, accused of racism or have to explain that racism actually exists and is an issue relevant to the DSD debate where it concerns non-minority female athletes. Is this board always like this - so dismissive of other views and lived experiences?

an issue relevant to the DSD debate where it concerns non-minority female athletes.

What does that mean?

FlirtsWithRhinos · 19/06/2025 19:00

PopeJoan2 · 19/06/2025 18:45

I didn’t get involved either.

i don’t have JK’s resources. It is easy to be fearless when you are so very wealthy and can get away from it all on a superyacht paid for in part by trans men and women who loved her work so much because they thought they saw themselves in it.

coming harry potter GIF

TRAs can still see themselves in it.

Helleofabore · 19/06/2025 19:01

Christmasmorale · 19/06/2025 18:58

I don;t know them personally. I believe in the legal process. I believe in standardised testing, and until then I refuse to engage in witch hunts and individual attacks.

This is a weak deflection.

You told us Banda is reducing testosterone. This means they are male.

But let’s try it this way. Do you believe it is ethical for any male person to compete in a female sports event and claim awards meant for female athletes when they are fully aware that they are male?

nutmeg7 · 19/06/2025 19:02

Christmasmorale · 19/06/2025 18:50

So that's OK then?

I am saying it is completely understandable that people will voice their suspicions when an obvious male person wins women’s medals in sport because there was no actual sex /DNA test as a bar to entry into the female category.

Women are angry at being defrauded in this way.

spannasaurus · 19/06/2025 19:03

Christmasmorale · 19/06/2025 18:55

Unfortunately they kicked in on this thread. Anyone with ADHD will know that was fatal to my chances at productivity today. This thread is now a focus of my meds.

I will try my best to listen to you though because I get absolutely no joy from being called names, accused of racism or have to explain that racism actually exists and is an issue relevant to the DSD debate where it concerns non-minority female athletes. Is this board always like this - so dismissive of other views and lived experiences?

There was a boxing tournament last month where they introduced sex testing. Imane Khelif pulled out of the tournament rather than be tested because he knows he's a man. Are Algerian women routinely accused of being masculine - is that why you think khelif was called a man?

Are tiawanese women routinely accused of being masculine - is that why you think the other male Olympic boxer Lin Yu Ting was accused of being a man?

Christmasmorale · 19/06/2025 19:03

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 18:59

an issue relevant to the DSD debate where it concerns non-minority female athletes.

What does that mean?

I'm afraid if I answer I'll be accused of derailing - I have given extensive explanations upthread. But I'll bow out now because I now need to do half a day's worth of work. I'm also genuinely saddened by the responses and dismissiveness towards my black female experience and viewpoint - this clearly isn't the place for wanting genuine discussion from diverse experiences.

javyd · 19/06/2025 19:04

Christmasmorale · 19/06/2025 18:49

So an example of attacking an individual is Barbra Banda - to best of my knowledge she hasn't ever said anything to or about JKR.

by attacking do you mean pointing out their biological sex? Which is highly relevant in competitive sports where the stakes are high, injuries are common and the financial rewards are considerable.

Helleofabore · 19/06/2025 19:09

christmasmorale

So, I think from your repeated reaction to these points that it can be interpreted that you refuse to tell us whether a male person who knows they are male yet plays in female sports events and claiming awards for female athletes is by their actions abusing female athletes.

And it can be interpreted that you will support those male people over female athletes and demonise JK Rowling for pointing out the injustice.

This is the outcome of your vilification of JK Rowling whether you intended to or not.

Helleofabore · 19/06/2025 19:18

Christmasmorale · 19/06/2025 18:49

So an example of attacking an individual is Barbra Banda - to best of my knowledge she hasn't ever said anything to or about JKR.

https://x.com/jkrowling/status/1861449157564592425?s=46

This seems to be the tweet being referred to.

It is a comment about the BBC’s decision if I read it correctly. I don’t believe it is an attack on Banda.

There is no mention of Banda on JK Rowling’s twitter.

Have these accusations of ‘attacks’ been not even checked by the poster ?

I have double checked and this was the only tweet ever referred to in the media. And it is about the BBC selection of this player.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1861449157564592425?s=46

Absentmindedsmile · 19/06/2025 19:30

theDudesmummy · 19/06/2025 18:12

Fry: "I found her charming, funny and interesting and then this thing happened". What does he mean by "this thing"?

You found her funny charming, and interesting? What is she Stephen, a baby marmoset in fcking Blackpool Zoo?

OP posts:
javyd · 19/06/2025 19:35

Helleofabore · 19/06/2025 19:18

https://x.com/jkrowling/status/1861449157564592425?s=46

This seems to be the tweet being referred to.

It is a comment about the BBC’s decision if I read it correctly. I don’t believe it is an attack on Banda.

There is no mention of Banda on JK Rowling’s twitter.

Have these accusations of ‘attacks’ been not even checked by the poster ?

I have double checked and this was the only tweet ever referred to in the media. And it is about the BBC selection of this player.

Edited

their trans mate on reddit told them JK was a bitch and they’re running with it…

BettyBooper · 19/06/2025 19:36

racism actually exists and is an issue relevant to the DSD debate where it concerns non-minority female athletes

They aren't female athletes. That's the whole point.

*Bangs head against wall

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 19:37

Absentmindedsmile · 19/06/2025 19:30

You found her funny charming, and interesting? What is she Stephen, a baby marmoset in fcking Blackpool Zoo?

Who enabled you to earn a shit ton of money? But now you're dissing her?

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 19:38

BettyBooper · 19/06/2025 19:36

racism actually exists and is an issue relevant to the DSD debate where it concerns non-minority female athletes

They aren't female athletes. That's the whole point.

*Bangs head against wall

Give it up. It's better for your mental health 😆

BettyBooper · 19/06/2025 19:43

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 19:38

Give it up. It's better for your mental health 😆

Ha! Quite right 😂

Datun · 19/06/2025 19:58

Christmasmorale · 19/06/2025 18:58

I don;t know them personally. I believe in the legal process. I believe in standardised testing, and until then I refuse to engage in witch hunts and individual attacks.

Oh give over.

nutmeg7 · 19/06/2025 20:01

Christmasmorale · 19/06/2025 19:03

I'm afraid if I answer I'll be accused of derailing - I have given extensive explanations upthread. But I'll bow out now because I now need to do half a day's worth of work. I'm also genuinely saddened by the responses and dismissiveness towards my black female experience and viewpoint - this clearly isn't the place for wanting genuine discussion from diverse experiences.

You don’t really come across as wanting to listen or discuss, and it is perhaps a language thing.

If the main content of your posts is rooted in social justice language cliches, it becomes hard to understand what you are really saying. It comes across as not wanting real dialogue with other people, but just pulling out well-rehearsed phrases that ultimately dehumanise other sections of the population.

I can see that you have a lot to carry from your racial and sporting background, and that this is bound to make you more sensitive to Caster’s situation. But you seem to have come on here in a very defensive mode, assumed some quite offensive things about all the women on here, and are working on the assumption from the off that we are all “white feminists” who are inherently bad people.

It doesn’t always help women to be divided into camps or to be in a competition for who is the most oppressed.

In the end, just because a white woman cannot understand first-hand your own experience of racism, it doesn’t make her hateful, unkind, racist or anything else.

But if you denigrate people that you don’t know by repeatedly telling them that they don’t and can’t possibly care about racism because they are white (not true), or accuse them of applying white beauty standards when correctly judging the sex of a black male (no-one here has said anything judgemental about any black woman’s appearance) then dialogue becomes much harder to achieve.

Absentmindedsmile · 19/06/2025 20:10

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 19:37

Who enabled you to earn a shit ton of money? But now you're dissing her?

Like the other 3 talent-less ingrates

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 19/06/2025 20:10

STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY STEPHEN FRY

Absentmindedsmile · 19/06/2025 20:16

Hmm perhaps he’s ’old and confused’? And yes I see this Was before he realised he’s got no part in the new HP series..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14212315/Stephen-Fry-criticises-nonsensical-approach-trans-LGBT-Stonewall.html

Stephen Fry has criticised Stonewall as 'nonsensical' and 'stuck in a terrible, terrible, quagmire' on trans issues as he spoke out against the LGBT charity for the first time.

Stephen Fry criticises Stonewall's 'nonsensical' trans approach

Author and broadcaster Stephen Fry has criticised Stonewall as 'nonsensical' and 'stuck in a terrible, terrible, quagmire' as he spoke out against the LGBT charity for the first time.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14212315/Stephen-Fry-criticises-nonsensical-approach-trans-LGBT-Stonewall.html

OP posts:
POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 19/06/2025 20:26

Christmasmorale · 19/06/2025 17:22

Because black women experience misogyny in a different way to white women and that experience has the same root as Semenya’s experience of racism.

So it would have the same "root" as Jesse Owens and Muhammad Ali's experience of racism.

Why use Semenya as your example when you could cite so many black, male athletes who did not cheat their way to success in unfair competition against women in women's sport?

ThatCyanCat · 19/06/2025 21:08

Ben Cooper is smart.

Stephen Fry - What a repulsive, condescending misogynistic turd
DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 21:12

ThatCyanCat · 19/06/2025 21:08

Ben Cooper is smart.

To be fair, I don't think it's just Britain.

He's not that smart if he thinks that entitled, over-promoted males just exist in the UK.

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 21:13

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 21:12

To be fair, I don't think it's just Britain.

He's not that smart if he thinks that entitled, over-promoted males just exist in the UK.

I mean, hello, France?!

Oh, the irony of a man proclaiming about something he clearly doesn't know much about.

ThatCyanCat · 19/06/2025 21:19

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 21:12

To be fair, I don't think it's just Britain.

He's not that smart if he thinks that entitled, over-promoted males just exist in the UK.

I think Britain is more likely to give a silly midwitted man a pass if he's upper class, reads well and cultivates a bumbling, jovial persona.

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