Good Law Project's latest claim - fact check?

[teawamutu]

I'm sure there must be some arrant bollocks in here somewhere, because Jolyon.

But is there anything worrying in this?

goodlawproject.org/ehrc-backs-down-on-single-sex-toilets/

Yeah, that's not legal.

Most trans people do not have a GRC

Even if they do, the GRA makes it clear that its impact is limited.

The goal of the act is to recognise Article 8 obligations, but the right to privacy is not absolute and must be balanced against other people’s rights.

The Good Law Project would be more successful if it worked within the law as it is, not the law as it would like it to be.

I hear you.
The imposition of this false and coercive dogma on society is the unreasonable/ untenable part.

@Tandora See i have a serious issue, I'm female but not feminine. To me gender is a spectrum, feminine on one end masculine on the other, I definitely fall on the slightly masculine side. But I'm not a man, I'm a woman, always referred to as a tomboy so if toilets are going to be arranged on the basis of gender where do I go? Since it's a spectrum do you need say 10 different toilets for the different levels of gender, plus all the additional ones that don't fall on the standard spectrum?

Much easier and simpler to have all genders toilets arranged strictly on sex.

Are you a woman?

And that's EXACTLY what you are trying to do.

It's failed.

Well yes, I would agree with that.

Thankfully the Supreme Court has put this false and coercive dogma back in its place and confirmed that women exist and have rights, however much that might upset trans people.

Depends what you class a woman as. If you definition is anyone who identifies as a woman then no I'm not.

You would agree that this statement is false and coercive dogma?

"Trans women (including those with gender recognition certificates) are excluded from using women's toilets because they are the opposite sex to women."

🙄

No, the falsehood that male people can be women and that anyone who disagrees is an evil bigot is false and coercive dogma.

Saying that trans women are male and shouldn't be in female only spaces due to the impact of their presence on members of the female sex is just common sense. (And also, the law.)

And neither am I.

I don't identify as anything.

You still haven’t explained what you mean by ‘cis’.

You say that you don’t like to share facilities with ‘cis’ men, but you still haven’t explained how you exclude them from women’s facilities if toilets are segregated by gender.

Surely it’s up to individuals to decide whether they identify as ‘cis’.

I think that's quite the sleight of hand. It's easy to see how the statement:

"in workplaces, it is compulsory to provide sufficient single-sex toilets,"

could be read as suggesting workplaces are compelled to provide at least some single-sex toilets.

Being trans is not trivial however much you attempt to diminish it.

I don't care what being trans is.

It has no bearing on what a woman is or whether our sex based rights should be upheld.

It's no more relevant to me than what a goth is.

Talking of threats and harms and devastation…..

There is a literal threat to the existence to anyone in enclosed toilets compared to the non enclosed single sex design with door gaps.

Just take one example, 11% of people having cardiac arrests have them on the loo, and there is a heart attack every five minutes in the U.K. Then add all the other medically emergencies - it doesn’t make sense to have universal designs as standard.

Theres been a fantastic campaign to get defibrillator access points around the country, and most people would try and help someone if they saw someone had stopped breathing.

I saved a young woman’s life because I saw she had collapsed inside her cubicle. If she had been in an enclosed cubicle she would have died.

I predict in the long term many of the universal toilets will cost too much to maintain, be places of dirt and crime and many will be shut down. For the same reasons many public toilets have been shut down. Depending on how much they are tolerated will depend on how much outcry there is and if women and children report what goes on in them. If you had to use disabled toilets, you would realise what a state they get into. Because they are private and mixed sex.

You can’t stop sex happening in public toilets. But you can try and prevent as much sex by making the occupants feet visible, because it is against the law to have sex in a public loo. Similar to drug use.

Health and Safety comes first. Then privacy. It’s a proportionate reason to have single sex public toilets with door gaps as standard for the legitimate aim of keeping everyone as safe and healthy as possible.

Obviously in places like train carriages when there’s only enough room for a universal toilet then you have the disadvantages that go with privacy and enclosure. This includes the spread of pathogens such as a recent study in hospitals, where it was found there were microbes at a greater concentration in universal toilets.

Thats why Good Law argument is flawed as they are trying to argue individual complete privacy overides collective safety and safeguarding which protects the individual. Unless they argue for universal toilets with door gaps which would be a change in building regulations and very unpopular.

Public toilet design for women is dictated by male behaviour. It’s putting anyone at risk when they are at their most vulnerable.

No it's the law, it's society's preference, it is just the way it is.

Men never asked if they could do this to women, they coerced their way in.

Walking through that door with the female sign was literally how men transition.

That's why they are so upset.

The sooner they get used to their new normal the better.

Especially at work, no? I work in HR and I'm sick of this coercive dogma being forced on us at work. So glad it's over.

Not if it’s a bullet point within a paragraph that has already explained when unisex provision is appropriate.

I don't care what being trans is

I hear you.

It has no bearing on what a woman is or whether our sex based rights should be upheld.

I entirely agree with you and nor does it except in your fantasies.

It's no more relevant to me than what a goth is

Again being trans is not trivial , however much you try to demean and diminish trans people.

Being a woman, ruled by a body designed to carry the next generation, being constantly judged because of that is not trivial either but some men demand to be allowed to identify as women and access to women's spaces which are needed due to biology not feelings

I don't agree that the below underlined statement at the end of the paragraph sufficiently clarifies that when they said ""in workplaces, it is compulsory to provide sufficient single-sex toilets," they did not mean that workplaces had to provide single sex toilets.

where toilet, washing or changing facilities are in lockable rooms (not cubicles) which are intended for the use of one person at a time, they can be used by either women or men”

Being a woman isn't trivial, being trans isn't trivial. Both these things are true.

I entirely agree with you and nor does it except in your fantasies.

Yes it does, thanks to you and other members of your religion who insist that "women" is a mixed sex category which must include any man who wants to be included!

Being trans might not be trivial to trans people, but it is pretty trivial to everyone else. Because we are all the main characters in our own lives and not supporting characters in trans people's lives.

Ok so... you don't know the answer?

Which genders do you personally believe accord with female? Do you not know?