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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Phillipa york in the guardian

119 replies

Theeyeballsinthesky · 16/06/2025 08:01

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/jun/16/when-i-stopped-racing-i-thought-who-am-i-pippa-york-on-leaving-her-old-life-behind

equating young girls going on the pill with puberty blockers

“If you look at puberty blockers, that’s going to start around 12. Young girls are given the pill, so are we going to say that’s not OK? The decisions being made now over puberty blockers are purely political.”

and denying men have an advantage over women

She states that the idea that “somebody who’s been through male puberty has this innate advantage is just ludicrous. People come in all sizes. Each of us has different levels of testosterone at which our body is healthy.”

‘When I stopped racing I thought, who am I?’: Pippa York on leaving her old life behind

The Tour de France stage winner talks in detail for the first time about transitioning when her cycling career ended, growing up in the Gorbals and alienation in the peloton

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/jun/16/when-i-stopped-racing-i-thought-who-am-i-pippa-york-on-leaving-her-old-life-behind

OP posts:
PriOn1 · 16/06/2025 08:07

Ugh! Not going to give any clicks to that, but the idea that controlling painful periods or preventing pregnancy in teenage girls is somehow similar to stopping puberty (to be followed by irreversible changes due to cross sex hormones) is bollocks. Going on the pill is entirely reversible.

ArabellaScott · 16/06/2025 08:08

Old bloke has no insight or understanding into the lives of girls or women shocker.

PlasticAcrobat · 16/06/2025 08:17

I feel like activist staff at the guardian must have pressed for some kind of a 'deal': You can research and print factual articles about the Supreme Court judgement and the conflict between trans activism and women's rights; but ONLY if you include lots of fact-free pieces about frustrated transpeople and bandwagon-riding celebrities for 'balance'.

For a while after the judgement I thought the guardian was improving in its coverage, but these 'balance' pieces are getting more extreme. It is like the have modified their 'facts are sacred comments are free' mantra' to 'facts are hurtful, comment pieces soothe'

ScathingAngelAgrona · 16/06/2025 08:20

Looked at the photo and immediately knew this is not a woman.

PlasticAcrobat · 16/06/2025 08:23

... although actually that piece is not too bad. There are paragraphs added that add balance to her inaccurate claims about puberty blockers and male performance advantage.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 16/06/2025 08:26

PlasticAcrobat · 16/06/2025 08:23

... although actually that piece is not too bad. There are paragraphs added that add balance to her inaccurate claims about puberty blockers and male performance advantage.

Yes Tbf it is a lot more balanced than most Guardian pieces

OP posts:
MoistVonL · 16/06/2025 08:29

Robert Millar/Philippa York is talking out of his backside. The pill and puberty blocker are nothing like one another.

The sheer audacity of spouting such nonsense shouldn’t keep surprising me, but it does.

nutmeg7 · 16/06/2025 08:34

Just an ignorant man.

Knows no science.
Knows nothing about the difference between the pill and puberty blockers.
Knows nothing about women’s bodies.
Not enough humility to question his own arrogant assertions.

Fizbosshoes · 16/06/2025 08:36

As an aside, my DD wanted to go on the pill at 14 or 15 and the GP was very reluctant to prescribe it, and gave us very detailed information on the risks and side effects, so much so that DD ended up not having it. (She later took it age 18 - for 6 months - to treat her acne)
.

rubyslippers · 16/06/2025 08:37

There was an article about Phillipa on the Sundays times this week as well - very telling that he used to wear his sister’s clothes as a youngster …

Brainworm · 16/06/2025 08:43

Didn’t The Guardian take the stance that the relentless articles about trans issues amounted to harassment and increased the vulnerability of the most marginalised group in society?

It seems to me that they pretty much have an article every day these days. I wonder how much revenue they make from all the clicks they get through links posted on Mumsnet.

user101101 · 16/06/2025 08:44

ScathingAngelAgrona · 16/06/2025 08:20

Looked at the photo and immediately knew this is not a woman.

Yup

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 16/06/2025 08:51

Yeah that wasn’t bad at all. They countered the really mad stuff he said. Change afoot at the guardian

really telling that Pippa just can’t get his head around the idea that women’s stuff is for women. And that alone is all the reason required to say men can’t have it

men like him will never see that I think. They can’t be compromised with. We just need to get to a point where organisations are confident and comfortable to just say ‘No’ when men like this demand women’s things

Floisme · 16/06/2025 08:52

I think those additional 'balancing' paragraphs indicate that the Guardian knew that the information given in the interview was untrustworthy and yet a) I can see no sign that the interviewee was challenged about it and b) The Guardian published it anyway.

QAOPspaceman · 16/06/2025 09:00

As an average male athlete it absolutely staggers me that an elite one can’t comprehend the extent of male advantage. How ‘talented’ you were to be up there with the top men, Philippa! Wonder why so few other women manage it?

zanahoria · 16/06/2025 09:02

PriOn1 · 16/06/2025 08:07

Ugh! Not going to give any clicks to that, but the idea that controlling painful periods or preventing pregnancy in teenage girls is somehow similar to stopping puberty (to be followed by irreversible changes due to cross sex hormones) is bollocks. Going on the pill is entirely reversible.

It is clearly something he knows nothing about

zanahoria · 16/06/2025 09:03

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 16/06/2025 08:51

Yeah that wasn’t bad at all. They countered the really mad stuff he said. Change afoot at the guardian

really telling that Pippa just can’t get his head around the idea that women’s stuff is for women. And that alone is all the reason required to say men can’t have it

men like him will never see that I think. They can’t be compromised with. We just need to get to a point where organisations are confident and comfortable to just say ‘No’ when men like this demand women’s things

of all the nonsense spouted, the idea that that he has escaped being male is the most risible

nauticant · 16/06/2025 09:04

I suspect the equivalent piece in The Times on Saturday might have actually been worse:

https://archive.ph/EAWLm

Very long and I felt like I was being gaslit all the way through.

Here's the reason these pieces are appearing:

The Escape: The Tour, the Cyclist and Me by Pippa York and David Walsh (Mudlark £22), published on Thursday.

nauticant · 16/06/2025 09:08

rubyslippers · 16/06/2025 08:37

There was an article about Phillipa on the Sundays times this week as well - very telling that he used to wear his sister’s clothes as a youngster …

She coped by creating a secret world, tiptoeing into his sister Elizabeth’s room at their 11th-floor flat in Pollokshaws, south of Glasgow. Elizabeth was a year older and her clothes fitted Robert. Picking the moment carefully, he would sneak into his sister’s room and put on her clothes. Dressed in his sister’s clothes, he felt more comfortable and more secure. He liked that feeling. The difficulty was getting to see the result in the bathroom mirror, which was downstairs.

Once, when alone in the flat, Robert was downstairs, checking his outfit in the mirror. Then the sound of an opening door. His dad unexpectedly arrived home from work. Men in 1970s Glasgow never came home early from work. This day his dad did and there was 13-year-old Robert, dressed as a girl. Tights, skirt, top, make-up, the whole shebang. And Bill Millar in the hallway. For God’s sake.
Neither Dad nor Robert said a word. The bathroom door closed quickly. Bill Millar went upstairs. Robert pressed his back to the door.

He hasn’t seen me. He hasn’t said anything. I’ve got away with it. He began removing everything. De-girling. Clothes gone. Face scrubbed.

And then from upstairs, the shout: “Are you finished in there yet?”

Robert ran upstairs, sat on his bed and waited. It was late when his father finally came to his bedroom. A man wrestling with words and struggling. He could have said: “You know, I saw you dressed as a girl today, Robert.” He could have said: “What the f* are you playing at, kid?” He could have said: “No son of mine ”

Instead, Bill tried to understand. Tried his best to express something soft through the awkwardness of a working-class Glaswegian man in the 1970s. “You’re going through puberty, adolescence. We all went through it. It’s a natural time. It’s confusing too.”

And his son, the boy who wants to be a girl, isn’t relieved to hear the pastoral tone. He’s crawling under his bedsheets. It’s excruciating. Oh Jesus. Don’t, Dad. Anything but this. Be angry even, but not this.

Bill confirms that he and Mum have had a talk. Oh, no, he’s told my mum. Oh Jesus. What’s she gonna say? Why the f* would you tell her?

“So, your mum and I, we don’t want you to worry. You’re a good wee lad. And this is just a thing that you’re going through. As I said, lots of people go through it. Puberty and all that.”

And then: “I went through it. Yes, when I was growing up, I was a bit confused as well.”

Robert is thinking: “You’ve dressed as a girl as well? It’s not just me, then? Why didn’t you say that at the start? Maybe it really is just a phase? Maybe I’m not a freak show like they say in the magazines or the papers. My dad was confused as well. It passed for him. Look at him, he doesn’t wear dresses any more. Just look at him. He’s fine now.”

His dad gets up to leave. Bill Millar walks out of his child’s bedroom in Glasgow in the 1970s. Touchy-feely is years away. Man-to-man is all there is, even if one man is a boy whose sole contribution to the conversation has been a mortified grunt. Bill Millar has that face on. The face says, it’s OK, I’ve talked about that. Whatever it was, I’ve talked about it. I’ve dealt with that. I’ve done my bit. I’ve asked you. You’ve listened. I can report back downstairs. Job done.
“So that’s it, son. Yeah. Now go to sleep.” Bill Millar’s footsteps faded down the stairs. Robert lay there, a curled-up comma of a boy, fretting in his bed. Questions he wanted to ask now raised their hands — too late.

His mum never, ever mentions the subject. Nobody ever mentions it again.

MassiveWordSalad · 16/06/2025 09:08

It is endlessly tiresome to have women’s sports mansplained to the world by blokes who have no understanding of human anatomy and physiology. This is what happens in MtF transition, according to him:

“People don’t understand the physiological changes. Your testosterone basically drops to zero. Testosterone doesn’t make you stronger, it’s part of the system which repairs the damage done by exercise.”

🙄🙄🙄

As Robert Millar he was one of the greatest cyclists in history, a King of the Mountain. What can he know about the experience of being a female cyclist?

Straighthairday · 16/06/2025 09:09

Actually it is a real exercise in journalism. Ludicrous claim spouted followed by the actual consensus view from literature. I actually think if this had happened 10 years ago we might not have landed in this spot. People would have listened to the ludicrous claim and understood it was rooted in emotion and not logical and given the due empathy for the break with reality the person was clearly experiencing and then just went about their day.

Floisme · 16/06/2025 09:15

I disagree slightly, @Straighthairday - I think real journalism would have involved either challenging the account given during the interview or, if the reporter only found out later that the information was untrustworthy, going back and asking for further comment. Instead I think they've chosen a pretty cowardly way out which will please no-one.

viques · 16/06/2025 09:26

Such confused thinking. I am sorry for him, he sounds bitter and unhappy but extremely irrational and ill informed. I can understand the bitterness and unhappiness, but to re state known untruths about transition can only be seen as deliberate and misleading.

For example ,I don’t know what surgery he has had, but it is well known that if you give puberty blockers to very young boys, the suggestion in the article is twelve, then their penis does not develop sufficiently to be viable for use in neo vaginal surgery, meaning that either an unsatisfactory result ensues, or a part of the colon is used instead which is very problematic and usually leads to difficult outcomes with their own challenges and potential distress. As a fully developed male this would not have been an issue (if he had had this surgery), but puberty blockers at 12 would deny this opportunity - I use the term lightly- to others. I am very pleased he was challenged on the permanent advantages of height and strength male puberty endows on male athletes and transitioned transwomen, again something he is prepared to deny.

If he wants to be seen as someone with value to add to the debate he needs to be honest, not least about his undeniable sporting achievement which he achieved as Robert, not as Pippa, painful as it might be for him to admit it.

MarieDeGournay · 16/06/2025 09:35

QAOPspaceman · 16/06/2025 09:00

As an average male athlete it absolutely staggers me that an elite one can’t comprehend the extent of male advantage. How ‘talented’ you were to be up there with the top men, Philippa! Wonder why so few other women manage it?

Obvious not 'talented' enough with the testosterone he already had:

Millar, R positive 14/05/1992 Positive test ID 811
Millar tested positive for a high testosterone level following Stage 18 of the 1992 Vuelta. He received a fine, a time penalty in the race and a temporary suspension.
Millar, R positive . Dopeology

That said, even if he was 'assisted' in some way, so were most of the other competitors, so he did do well in the Tour de France and other big races.
Pity he didn't stick to recalling his career in professional cycling instead of dabbling in amateur pharmacology and physiology.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 16/06/2025 09:37

Oh look. He thinks that anyone who thinks males shouldn't compete in female sport should be sacked. 🙄