Murderer's criminal record wiped due to 'trans' identity

[ArabellaScott]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/trans-killer-criminal-record-wiped-35397482

Only came to light because of the court case involving him claiming a woman in prison had been 'transphobic'(he lost). Presumably this man remains in the women's estate.

I think some media had a history of genuine journalism and got complacent. Confused/elided rigorous fact checking and attempts to be objective with moral righteousness, and eventually slid into the latter and got more and more lax about the former.

I agree. Fife has had a particularly unpleasant dose of this phenomenon. I think it would be very hard to study, given how people move around during the course of their lives. What would count as “original” for someone who moved about a bit? But there must be a case for mapping the unusual cases of this sort and looking at where connections lie.

I actually couldn’t post on this thread last night as it was making me so outraged and upset I started to feel panicky, but have calmed down a bit.

it’s exactly this - HOW can so many institutions and organisations, and those in charge of pretty fundamental societal tasks like managing criminals, have collectively lost their minds? How is it not the most obvious thing in the world that if you have a category of “protected”/“oppressed” person that anyone can opt into, and that group gets special rights like being able to access other protected groups’ rights and categories, and being able to cut ties with their past name and history, wronguns are going to exploit that? It’s so blindingly obvious and now it’s been played out in front of us for years it’s even more obvious - yet somehow people who sensibly point this out are still “bigots” who are motivated by “hate”?

It’s so unbelievably bonkers. And yet society has managed to make sure women can’t opt in to being a man to claim an aristocratic title/property. Which shows very clearly that the concept of a loophole that could be exploited IS understood. But when it’s a man, even the worst kinds of criminal men, it’s fine?

I know lots of people are working hard to overturn this and I do think sense will prevail in the end - but there are still SO many people out there including in positions of power, who swallow and believe the “poor oppressed soul in wrong body” narrative despite the teetering pile of evidence that this whole movement is causing such a huge amount of harm, danger and social regression. It’s really knocked my understanding of and faith in how things work (which wasn’t naive before…)

And yes to the Daily Mail’s factual accuracy. I hate to admit it because I am left wing but it’s the left who have abandoned common sense and logic and left the more conservative press to pick up the slack (with some honourable exceptions, inc. the Morning Star and the New Statesman - ). I’m not excusing the Mail’s misogyny and narrow-mindedness in other areas but it has always been very strong on accurate science reporting.

I look forward to your thread @MrsOvertonsWindow . I have been tempted to start a thread about social workers this week after reading about the murder of little Preston Davey, but to be honest feared accusations of homophobia. I just wondered how much his new "dads" were favoured over couples or single women.
This poor little baby was subject to sexual assault and cruelty, with both the perpetrators being accused of making indecent images. If he hadn't died at 13 months one assumes it would be continuing.
How the fuck were people like this even considered for adopting a baby?
I know women can be cruel and twisted too but it seems to be mostly men with the porn habits.

Was it langcleng who was kicked off mumsnet for repeatedly raising safeguarding concerns, predicting exactly this sort of mess?

To answer your first question, I think people get high on their own supply - the supply in this case being the feeling of being utterly virtuous, while those who disagree are cruel and evil.

It's a phenomenon not unique to the trans debate.
<handbrake turn>
You see it in dog training now, between the force free people who eschew all punishment on one side, and those who accept that punishment works and is sometimes either the best or only option.
The first batch refer to science based on surveys or on dodgy methodology (and totally ignore some serious and hard-hitting stuff) and are preachy and vocal. They can be revolting to anyone who disagrees and especially to those who go over to the other side - which in their eyes is comprised of evil, cruel, ignorant, unkind people who like hurting dogs. You wanna be the good guy? Then don't so much as say no to Fido. It's an easy sell... You can feel like a saint AND look down on the 'dinosaurs' living in the 'dark ages'.

You can get very high on that supply. I see it all the time.

Sorry for the derail. Just trying to stress that this desire to 'be kind' whatever the eveidence is quite a widespread phenomenon.

It’s chilling, and as pp said, exactly what was warned about.

I assumed at the time that that was his intention.

Thanks for clearing up my mistake. I agree that it makes us sound like the nutters.

Indeed.

I don't believe Andrew Miller will have to wait until he's served his sentence. It seems the bloke who inspired this thread hasn't. Miller may currently be awaiting his gender affirming care (courtesy of the Scottish Prison Service and the pockets of taxpayers) and processing his GRC paperwork. Then there's the fragrant Isla Bryson. He'll be out sooner. He may do nothing but he may have a shiny new identity, the face tattoos (not very feminine) may have gone. He's got nothing but time to do all sorts and a craven, compliant organisation to pay for it.

I keep saying it but the internalised misogyny in Scottish society is awful. Still. That is what causes this. And some kind of weird residual shame around past homophobia eg s28 that leads to the pussyfooting around any man who appears to be a bit vulnerable/feminine. A toxic combo for women.

It is so ludicrous! I don't think my blood pressure could cope if I didn't laugh occasionally. I haven't broached it much with people in real life because even the sanest folk seem to be landed firmly in "be kind" and, as you say, mentioning anything other than the guardian will get a pitying eye roll.
Even mentioning Mumsnet had my dad saying "er....but isn't it really right-wing?"

Sorry, my post a 9.57 was to @WhatterySquash
My phone loves dropping quotes.

I don't know about Peter Laing, but the Dolatowski family (a decent family, by the way) has been in the Kirkcaldy area for a good many years and Andrew Burns still has relatives in and around Kinglassie. Their families disowned them.

A local paper, I recall, quoted Andrew Burns' brother as saying that he was "at it".

I know what you mean, it also reminds me of the original purity spiral article about people on a (I think?) knitting forum berating each other for “cultural appropriation “ for daring to refer to a “kimono” while being white, and suchlike.

But I still get so amazed by how people allow themselves to both ignore obvious facts and logic fails, and also refuse to see that situations are nuanced. It is almost certainly not true that every member of any demographic is an adorable, saintly victim but least of all a demographic that lets anyone opt into it AND offers considerable rewards for doing so, especially to men and even more so to criminal men. I mean duh. Other examples are also stunning in the blinkeredness and stupidity they involve, but when it’s about keeping people safe from offenders and even that goes down the toilet without a second’s thought… it’s incredible, imagine if you could change the minds of institutions and authorities so easily on something actually positive and helpful to society instead of something that increases risk and enables dangerous men.

the other thing about the tinfoil hat effect is that these things make you so angry and frustrated that when trying to talk or argue with people who can’t see the issue you may rant and exclaim somewhat. Then you DEFINITELY are a witch “bigot” / “hate trans people”

Birth certificates should not be changed.

I think it's arguable that being able to walk away from a criminal record is detrimental to the majority of trans people. If I were recruiting for a role that required the successful applicant to pass a DBS check there is no way i would knowingly employ a tp. I don't believe I could ask if they had a GRC which would have enabled this extraordinary rebirth. Oddly, if they didn't have one and so still we're linked with their original id they would be a more attractive candidate. But if they might have a GRC i would have no way of knowing who i was actually employing.

Btw how does the DWP calculate their NI contribution, especially if they got their new identity late in life?

I don't think there is a sex based difference now. My husband and I both get our pensions at 67.

I think Cake is thinking about the difficulty of linking their contributions pre-New Personhood if, as it seems, all connections are severed. Is there a new NINO to go with the new birth cert?

They just change the name and gender field on the record. So anyone who has access to it will see the new ID. But they don't get a new NI number.

Ah, thank you - for some reason I thought they did, that makes far more sense! Though it does slightly raise a question in my mind of why, if a single thread can be spun for tax/pension/benefit purposes, it can't be done for safeguarding other people purposes.
Apologies, I don't think I'm being very clear!

https://www.gov.uk/tell-hmrc-change-of-details/gender-change

But they do get a new NHS number so it's hard to keep up!!

Wes Streeting has now put a ban on the NHS changing the sex markers for under18s on NHS records after the Sullivan report uncovered a parent who changed the sex marker on a young baby a few weeks old. Horrifyingly (but unsurprisingly given the gender woowoo capture in the NHS), the GP failed to report this as a serious safeguarding concern. Details below in the Sex Matters response to the report:

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/why-the-government-must-act-on-the-sullivan-review/

.

That’s appalling.