NHS Policy Audit - working party -Thread #3

[KnottyAuty]

NHS Policy Audit - working party -Thread #3

Original thread #1 here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5291237-nhs-policy-audit-working-party?page=1
Thread #2:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5322494-nhs-policy-audit-working-party-thread-2

This is a thread about “keeping the receipts” on NHS Policies prior to the Supreme Court ruling on 16th April 2025.

Our working theory is that there were no single sex spaces for NHS Staff or Patients in the entire country before that date, having all been removed by stealth.

We are aiming to prove this by auditing websites and policies for all the UK trusts and using the results to raise public awareness.

As well as recording what has happened historically, the information will form a baseline so we can check which Trusts comply or defy the judgement in due course...

We are working around the country region by region. If you fancy getting involved in a bit of grassroots feminism then please do join in to help!?

Each trust takes about an hour to research and you can upload online without giving any personal details away. Comment below and we can give you the link to an online survey - it changes for each region.

Thanks soooo much to all the vipers who have helped so far and @twoloons for doing a great job with the thread wrangling!

Ah yes, the transphobia is “gender racism” trope.

My bingo cards are getting worn out here.

I am starting to reach the point where I don’t think that anyone outside of the TQ people who wrote them ever actually read any of these policies.

another one and still 10 pages to go of this off the scale steaming pile of shit

"12. Using Toilet and Shower Facilities
Toilet and shower facilities are generally private and consequently trans people should be able to use the facility appropriate to their preferred or acquired gender.

If a person holds a Gender Recognition Certificate, or you have reason to suppose they do, then they are legally entitled to use those facilities.

If the service user has a sex offending history, risk should be managed in the same way as it would be with any other client, irrespective of gender. The vast majority of transgender people are entirely law abiding, with the notable trait that they (understandably) tend to be more private than others. "

@Cantunseeit:

If the service user has a sex offending history, risk should be managed in the same way as it would be with any other client, irrespective of gender. The vast majority of transgender people are entirely law abiding, with the notable trait that they (understandably) tend to be more private than others. "

Ha HA!

Oh dear. I’m crying. I also have a swamp in Florida that the writer of that piece of speculative fiction might be interested in buying.

This is really good @GreenAllOver. Do you know what the deal is with Patricia Hewitt and the switch to dependence on GIRES for policy-writing?

And we end with an EqIA checklist that ticks the "neutral impact" column for all 9 PCs (in which sex = sex/gender and gender reassignment = transgender)

So taking you back to the introduction for this gem:
"The law and practice in this area may continue to change and so we will continue to review this Guidance regularly to make sure it is kept up to date. It has deliberately been written in a simple format to make the document as accessible as possible. However, its simplicity should not be read as an attempt to minimise the complexity of the subject matter."

Now going to do something else for a while after repeatedly shaking my head very hard to dislodge everything that I've just read.

I don’t, maybe some of the more knowledgeable posters about Labour politics will. The Tom Harris thread has some people who remember a lot of this.

What I do know is her history with Harriet Harman at Liberty (the PIE scandal) and this Guardian article showing her being lobbied in her previous SofS role by Press for Change in 2002.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/dec/22/gender.immigrationpolicy

So it’s plausible (but note I have no evidence, this is purely supposition) that she was always interested in what she saw as liberal and human rights causes, and Press for Change therefore lobbied her, built up a relationship, and then moved that to focus on health issues when she moved from Trade and Industry to Dept of Health.

PS Apologies for error in previous post, should be Alan Milburn (not Andy).

@GreenAllOver, re Harman and the PIE scandal. I’ve always been very confused by that, and how anyone, even the most liberal, would think that it was an acceptable stance to take. However, because of another thread on here, I happened to go back and re-read about the German experiment that placed foster children with paedophiles, and there was a certain amount of background explanation for how this came to be seen as ok.

Basically, the take was that, pre-WWII, Germany had such an antiquated view on sex and sexuality, that anything remotely non-vanilla, or not between married couples, or not for procreation purposes, was seen as deviant. And that that repressed attitude was one of the things that led to Naziism (not saying I agree with this thesis, just that it’s what was put forward at the time). Therefore post-WWII, there was a push to the other extreme — everything should now be out in the open and explored and made “normal,” including things that should probably have come under the heading of paraphilia or fetish.

I’m certain that there were bad faith actors working out ways to take advantage of this, but if I squint, and look sideways at it, I can sort of see why some people, who just didn’t want to be on the wrong side of history, might have gone along with things beyond a point where they could (visibly) back out without looking like traitors to the cause.

Just seen this thread, and hope the following are useful . . .
West London NHS Trust policy (freely available).

I'd draw your attention to the 'Case Example' on page 14 / 40, and the 'Scenario' on Page 16 / 40.

T7 Trans Policy How to care for the needs of our patients.pdf

Struggling to link it, but I also have the Equality Impact Assessment for West London NHS Trust and the protected characteristic of ‘Sex’ has been replaced with ‘Gender' and it states that the above policy (i.e. self-ID) will have a positive effect on the protected characteristic of ‘sex’ because of:

‘Increased awareness of the wider spectrum of Trans patients within policy’.

The disregard for female service users is so upsetting.

I have recently listened to 'In dark corners' on BBC sounds. This is an investigation into PIE but some of the discussion reminded me of the TRA movement and the issues around safeguarding are also similar.

Thank you we have already covered all the London Trusts so @KnottyAuty will have this tucked away in her database I'm sure. If you are interested have a closer look at the thread, we are working our way through all of England having completed Scotland and hoping to do Wales as well. Always room for another on the team!

@KnottyAuty and @FarriersGirl I would love to help as well! I’m in the NorthWest but happy to look at any area you need.

Ah, sorry! Just spotted the thread and wanted to respond whilst I had a spare moment. I can see you've all been working very hard on this.

Happy to help with Wales if this would be useful.

Thanks that is useful because using the terms transvestite and transexual actually make the conversations with people much clearer - and now we can say that this is NHS approved vocab ....

This is the trust which includes Broadmoor. Eye opening.

Brilliant! I shall pop you over the Jotform link (which includes instructions) and I am sure @FarriersGirl will be along soon to allocate you a trust. The auditors are currently scouring the South East while I flounder in their wake tidying up the findings and plugging gaps! Thanks for offering to help

Thanks so much for the offer - we can only cope with one region at a time to make things manageable behind the scenes. So we will get to Wales as soon as Ermine's FOIs are finished - she is having a torrid time with them as very few have responded so far unfortunately! In the meantime we would love your help on the South East of England if you are up for it?!

Wow. That’s… extremely clear, isn’t it?

Morning @Mipe could you have a go at Southern Health Foundation Trust. The instructions are all on the form on the link you have been sent. Thank you!

@KnottyAuty Very happy to help with the South East of England!

Good morning @FarriersGirl - pl could you allocate me a trust

Good morning - how about the other ambulance trust, South Central?

Its time for an update - we are doing really well on a big region. If anyone is struggling with their allocated trust please let me know and I can reallocate if needed - we are all busy people!

Acute trusts in the South East region

Ashford and St Peter’s Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust - Cantunseeit
Buckinghamshire Healthcare NHS Trust -Cantunseeit
Dartford and Gravesham NHS Trust - Theeyeballsinthesky
East Kent Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust - Needmoretinfoil
East Sussex Healthcare NHS Trust - Yellowroom
Frimley Health NHS Foundation Trust - Cantunseeit
Hampshire Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust - Yellowroom
Isle of Wight NHS Trust - Cantunseeit
Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust - socialdilemma
Medway NHS Foundation Trust - Yellowroom
Oxford University Hospitals NHS Trust - thenoisiestteramgant
Portsmouth Hospitals University NHS Trust - bluebootsgreenboots
Queen Victoria Hospital NHS Foundation Trust - cantunseeit
Royal Berkshire Hospital NHS Foundation Trust - Yellowroom
Royal Surrey County Hospital NHS Foundation Trust - cantunseeit
Surrey and Sussex Healthcare NHS Trust - yellowroom
University Hospital Southampton NHS Foundation Trust
University Hospitals Sussex NHS Foundation Trust

Community and mental health trusts in the South East region

Berkshire Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust - withsilverbells
Central Surrey Health - FarriersGirl
First Community Health and Care - FarriersGirl
Kent Community Health NHS Foundation Trust - Cantunseeit
Kent and Medway NHS and Social Care Partnership Trust - Blackmetallic
Medway Community Healthcare - FarriersGirl
Oxford Health NHS Foundation Trust - cantunseeit
Solent NHS Trust - FarriersGirl
Southern Health NHS Foundation Trust -Mipe
Surrey and Borders Partnership NHS Foundation Trust - teawamutu
Sussex Community NHS Foundation Trust - teawamutu
Sussex Partnership NHS Foundation Trust - teawamutu

Ambulance trusts in the South East region

South East Coast Ambulance Service NHS Foundation Trust - Yellowroom
South Central Ambulance Service NHS Foundation Trust - yellowroom

We will get a link sent out on the DM by @KnottyAuty and you can have University Hospital Southampton NHS Trust. The instructions are embedded in the form. Let me know if you get stuck.

Kent and Medway NHS and Social Care Partnership Trust - I'm about to submit it, there was very little information available on their website so a bit of digging was needed. Policies were only available through FoI but I thought parts of their Trans Equality in the Workplace Policy were worth flagging up on here: (bold type added by me)

5.6 Supporting trans employees and service users
5.6.1 Trans employees and service users must be treated with civility, dignity and respect with consideration of the following:
• Pronouns – ensure you use the correct pronoun for the individual e.g. he/she/they/ze
– this list is not exhaustive. Ask the individual how they would like to be addressed.
• Religion or belief – no-one should use their particular religious beliefs or cultural views about trans people to refuse to treat, work with or share facilities with a person who is trans.
• Toilets and changing facilities – trans people should not be prevented from having access to the facilities that affirms their gender identity. Gender neutral facilities may be available as an alternative for any person whether trans or not, who do not wish to share with others. This may be especially important for some people who identify as either men or women or identify as both and would be uncomfortable entering facilities designated ‘ladies’ or ‘gents’.

6.6 Discriminatory practice
6.6.1 Trans people may experience some or all of the following examples of discriminatory
practice:
• People refusing to associate with or ignoring them because of their trans status.
• Not being addressed in their affirmed gender or not having their new name used.
• Having their personal life and relations probed into.
• Having malicious gossip spread about them.
• Having confidential information relating to their trans status released without their approval.
• Having confidential information relating to their trans status released by someone they have disclosed to.
• Not being allowed to use facilities that are appropriate to the gender in which they live.
• Being treated less favorably than others in regard to sickness or other absences.
• Being refused access to services, facilities or premises due to prejudice from employees or other service users.
• Being verbally abused or physically assaulted because of their trans status.
• People refusing to associate with or ignoring them because of their religion, belief or cultural views.
6.6.2 As an employer and deliverer of care for trans people, KMPT should ensure that health and life experience are not diminished but rather enhanced through celebrating and embracing diversity.

4.2.3 Once a full GRC is issued to a person, their legal sex/ gender henceforth becomes for all purposes their acquired gender – including for marriage and civil partnerships purposes and for employment in posts where a Genuine Occupational Qualification to be a particular sex/gender applies

4.2.5 They do not need to show a GRC in order to change their day to day documentation or to use the toilet facilities of their acquired gender.