NHS Policy Audit - working party -Thread #3

[KnottyAuty]

NHS Policy Audit - working party -Thread #3

Original thread #1 here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5291237-nhs-policy-audit-working-party?page=1
Thread #2:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5322494-nhs-policy-audit-working-party-thread-2

This is a thread about “keeping the receipts” on NHS Policies prior to the Supreme Court ruling on 16th April 2025.

Our working theory is that there were no single sex spaces for NHS Staff or Patients in the entire country before that date, having all been removed by stealth.

We are aiming to prove this by auditing websites and policies for all the UK trusts and using the results to raise public awareness.

As well as recording what has happened historically, the information will form a baseline so we can check which Trusts comply or defy the judgement in due course...

We are working around the country region by region. If you fancy getting involved in a bit of grassroots feminism then please do join in to help!?

Each trust takes about an hour to research and you can upload online without giving any personal details away. Comment below and we can give you the link to an online survey - it changes for each region.

Thanks soooo much to all the vipers who have helped so far and @twoloons for doing a great job with the thread wrangling!

Lucky we’ve kept the receipts then!

Just spotted this - thanks for posting - depressing indeed!

Ooh excellent news!
There have been lots of other Trusts being tweeed by SEENinHealth who are doing a sterling job getting our audit results out.

Bit of a shout out from SEEN in Health for everyone here on X (via Nitter here):

https://nitter.net/SEENinHealth/status/2014062221337248244#m

🧵2/ This work was carried out by a group of concerned women, who in their spare time submitted FOI requests, collated responses by region, and audited NHS policies line-by-line against the law. We are deeply grateful for the care, diligence and public-spirited effort involved. We salute you!

Thanks to all here xxx

👏 brilliant work

@Cantunseeit I did a lot of digging on the original mixed sex accommodation guidance, if there’s anything you’re looking for in particular do dm me. I’ve got a lot of evidence around when various guidance documents changed, Christine Burns’ involvement and quite a bit on an odd lack of usual processes (including lack of Ministerial oversight).

Thank @GreenAllOver I was looking for evidence of how the various “advisors” to NHS Trusts have responded to the SCJ. Their content fills the void left by NHS England reviewing 2019 guidelines (but not yet replacing them).

I audited one of the Trusts in the North East which aligns itself closely with Hart Gables for delivering staff training, supporting patients etc. The Hart Gables website contained multiple statements like this. Complete obfuscation around biological sex.

https://x.com/SEENinHealth/status/2015767601092104408

They're calling it #Knottyaudit 😍

Top work! 💪

Well that is just fabulous and what a name check

Well done all of you!!!!

Ooh vipers - we’re famous!
well done everyone

I think it’s so important we are just called a “group of concerned women” because that’s what we are!

…. Err how does anyone here feel about doing a refresh if a load of FOIs were to go in this month….?

Let's do it. These twisting bastards need their feet held to the fire.

I have some bad news to share. My Trust is reviewing their trans policy.
I could leave that there…

However, I have had a sneak preview.
It looks like our policy will be very trans-focused.

I understand the Board are tying themselves in knots after the Darlington rulings. They are now also waiting for guidance following the Supreme Court decision. And hiding behind the “we are waiting for the Gov decision “

In the meantime, ladies, apparently the view remains that if someone identifies as a/has a GRC/hasn’t declared but is now a woman, you can use any lavatory you fancy.

The problem the Board has is that there are loads of trans men in the Trust. We’re talking employees not patients.

And apparently they are worried about a sex based decision impacting on their ability to use male toilets.

I am trying to work out a way to respect that while still protecting women’s right to safe spaces. It appears our Trust is more concerned about Trans women than women but it’s not entirely clear yet. To be continued…

In the meantime, ladies, apparently the view remains that if someone identifies as a/has a GRC/hasn’t declared but is now a woman, you can use any lavatory you fancy.

We have to hope that more women are emboldened, as the Darlington nurses were, to protest. It needs to be more than a lone individual like Sandie Peggie or Maria Kelly.

And apparently they are worried about a sex based decision impacting on their ability to use male toilets.

@Thecomedyclub Is there anyway that can be fact checked? It is very unusual that transmen want to use men’s toilets. Usually transmen want ‘gender neutral’ (which means unisex in design) and transwomen want to be in the women’s.

“Apparently” “they” are worried.

I expect it’s just one or at best two people. Or maybe just a flight of fancy by management. Transmen have suddenly become a big cause for concern, I wonder why?

@Thecomedyclubseems a strange direction to take by your Trust. Darlington judgment was clear about bio sex re EqA and the workplace regs. Even Kemp’s car crash of a judgment conceded that Fife was wrong not to provide SS facilities for Peggie after she complained. Furthermore the Kelly judgment (not nhs but workplace loos) did not uphold Maria Kelly’s claims because not enough women complained/ she didn’t complain correctly.

I may be wide of the mark with the above loosey goosey interpretation but it seems clear that the route your Trust is considering leaves it open to having to promptly and effectively manage complaints on an ongoing basis, or risk ending up in a ET.

An open sore which will eat up management time that should be focused on something else

Definitely. We had a great system going by the end of the last round and we should be able to hone it further so we can rip through the updates PDQ

@Cantunseeit you are absolutely right. Sorry I forgot to add that they (execs) will be addressing every complaint on a case by case basis. As if they have nothing better to do.

To use an excellent expression learnt on FWR “ they are be clowning themselves” 🤡🤡🤡🤡

Unfortunately it will take a lot of bravery by women to make the complaints. We need to get the word out far and wide that these policies are unlawful. It will still take guts for anyone to challenge them on a daily basis but there are thousands of women out there willing to garden and support in whatever ways they can. We are growing in numbers every batshit court case that is reported

I’m up for that 😀

I will be up for some more thread wrangling if needed