Witch ‘thrown off druid training course’ in trans row

[OhBuggerandArse]

This is a story with a bit of everything (not making light of it, sounds like Angela had the usual gruelling time in the face of typical TRA shenanigans, but the range of incidental detail is.... pretty extra).

https://archive.is/6goQB

How do the next generation of members find you?

They don't. I did training for a long time in a coven I ran but now I'm doing personal work only and meet up a few times a year with other 3rd degrees to do specific work that needs doing.
People who want training covens for Alexandrian wicca can find them on Facebook via Alexandrian wicca seekers and initiates.

What a disappointment.

I was wondering that too. Some pagans are solitary, but not by choice, due to the secretive nature of some groups (which is fine for covens to do!) So that's why the pagan federation is so important, because its public facing and somewhere that new pagans can find others.

Thanks for speaking up @SwordOfOmens that took a lot of courage.

This has been an excellent thread. Yes even the jokes. Modern paganism is a bit daft lets face it. I mean we talk to trees. So fine lets laugh about ourselves pagans are often good with that. However I would argue we are no more daft than any other religion, or self righteous atheists. Humans are very silly animals even on Mumsnet.

However, the deeper problem here is beyond a joke.

This has been going on for years. On Reddit, Facebook, forums every pagan space is captured by trans activist viewpoints any open discussion has been closed down for a long time.

Note the first thing they did was go after the Dianic Witches in the States. That should have been a warning beacon about what this whole thing was about. The one section of witchcraft purely focused on women and they witch hunted it. Yet there has been no huge outcry.

We need a spaces for pagan women and men [yes there are pagan men who actually respect this issue I am one] to talk about this openly.

I am glad to hear there is a Facebook group. Looks like there are some people gathering on X. It could be @SwordOfOmens problems may be fated to be the time for pagan people to gather. Because right now the many pagans who know that we have physical bodies and they matter have had NOWHERE to speak about this. They think they are alone. There are plenty of people who have something to say. There are plenty of people who could be persuaded if we just talk about it. It has to start with speaking out.

Something to work towards I think would be some kind of joint statement/or statements. About why modern commercial gender stuff is misguided and dangerous from a pagan point of view. About how far from being bigots those questioning it are the ones who actually see humans as the complex and fallible creatures they are. From the various posts here it is clear a lot of us are on the same page. I see this gender stuff as the result of a global spiritual and natural crisis. Both men and women have lost touch with themselves. Everything is interconnected.

I think a lot of older pagans can see through the nonsense, but they are side-lined and afraid. However they have resources and their own groups to rely on. The real danger is vulnerable youngsters. Right now the fact is we are failing them. Decent pagan elders are quick to warn against dodgy male predators an issue we have long had [though I would argue ALL religions have this issue]. However the trans issue has subverted safeguarding and debate completely.

This has been an excellent thread. Yes even the jokes. Modern paganism is a bit daft lets face it. I mean we talk to trees. So fine lets laugh about ourselves pagans are often good with that. However I would argue we are no more daft than any other religion, or self righteous atheists. Humans are very silly animals even on Mumsnet.

100% agree.

@SwordOfOmens you were fucking marvellous in that interview!

I want to say that I have zero problem with religion being a bit weird or daft. In fact I think religious should be a bit weird and daft. More recent traditions suffer from this because if something is old and familiar, we don't perceive it as weird.

I'm not Mormon, but a big chunk of my extended family is. Do you have any idea how hard it is to explain Mormon history and theology to normies without sounding very silly? "So our prophet bought an Egyptian mummy from a travelling salesman, and the salesman threw in some scrolls as part of the deal, and the scrolls don't say what our prophet thought they said, but what he thought they said is part of our scriptures and tells us what planet God lives on."

I just accept that visionaries arise from time to time, and I don't mind whether they were 50 or 200 or 2000 years ago, it's mostly a matter of whether people find value in their teachings.

I think there are probably reasons why the pagan community might be prone to belief in gendered souls, and it might be to do with ideas, but it's probably got more to do with the kind of people who are attracted to paganism. Older people with a strong "be kind" ethos and younger people who buy heavily into the omnicause.

The challenge will be to convince people with a strong mystical bent that actually sex is real and sometimes it does matter. I get the sense that the pagan community has a lot of Layla Moran types who believe they can see someone's female soul and that renders his male body irrelevant.

Excellent post. Stands to reason why Dianic Wicca was the first target - just as they made a beeline for rape crisis centres, lesbian dating groups and the FiLiA conference. Anything deemed 'all female' is immediately fair game. Women must not be allowed to organise without male permission, to meet or to converse in the absence of male infiltration. Presumptuous bitches.

As for paganism in general, since the dawn of our species humans have needed some form of spiritual sustenance. This is unsurprising given the violent, destructive nature of our kind and the sort of difficult lives we often live - frequently, sadly, at the hands of each other. We've also long believed in all sorts of daft things (like the assumption that our dimporphic species is capable of changing sex, for example). The fact that it's women who are often in the firing line is likely the reason a lot of these spaces are wanted or necessary in the first place. But it's good to laugh at ourselves. Unlike the heavily patriarchal, organised faith systems, pagan self-mockery isn't deemed sacreligious.

But I've yet to see anything quite so devoid of humour as the MRA/TRA movement. Not to mention its female adherents whose capitulation to this crap - on their own behalf and that of every other member of womankind - I find completely unfathomable. As far as irony goes, never has the creed 'harm none, do what you will' rung so hollow.

This destructive, woman-hating shit show harms and poisons everything it touches.

Hi, I am a gender critical pantheist. Pleased to meet you /|\

That was the idea of it at first but now they are totally brainwashed by woo and supporting events that go directly against coven rules and culture. A coven is not a social group.

True, and I didn't mean to be humourless about it, just encounter a lot of it and sometimes it gets a bit much. I don't think talking to trees is any dafter than talking to most people though.

Merry meet! If you'd like to join our movement for action, send me a DM

As an aside, first time I tried talking to the trees, I had the experience of being told very clearly to "piss off" when I asked for a branch to make a wand. I burst into laughter and for the first time, took a good look at the grumpy tree. It was an old apple tree that was on its last legs and covered with ivy. It was a very surprising and memorable experience!

Yes, we druids and witches can definitely laugh about ourselves! This is one of my silly stories!

What's going on in paganism with trans ideology is definitely NOT funny. It's incredibly serious. Please do DM me if you'd like to get involved in positive changes

As far as irony goes, never has the creed 'harm none, do what you will' rung so hollow.

I've met quite a few people who are very keen on the 'do what thou wilt' and forget about the 'harm none' bit.

You were terrific 💕

@SwordOfOmens
such a good interview, so clear and reasonable. 👍🏻

Just caught up with the interview. Wonderfully well said 👏

It's going to be a long month, waiting for their replies to my complaints

Your interview was excellent. Lucid, intelligent, well-reasoned and clear. The contrast between this and the TRA position continues to be so stark that it can only be missed if you're wilfully closing your eyes to unpalatable facts.

They couldn't lie straight in bed. The protestation that the law has ever stated that, for the purposes of the EA, women can be men, is empty rhetoric. It doesn't. It never has. The SC outlined this in plain English and in completely unambiguous terms. It's a clarification of the law as it's always been, whereas the law according to Stonewall is a campaign of disingenuous obfuscation and deliberate disinformation to ensure their BS became widely accepted as fact. Hence all the 'training' (gah).

These people couldn't teach a cat to drink milk. Yet the gullible public services, including the NHS and education sector who should be intelligent enough to know better, just lapped it up. Perhaps this is the nature of the problem - acknowledging as much at this point would be tantamount to a confession of pure stupidity. And of course their egos will never allow them to admit to that.

Kudos to you, Angela. You've shown this ideology and its glassy-eyed, credulous trans-bots up for precisely what they are. Applause.

Morning all, I'm going to be on Talk Radio tonight at about 9pm to discuss the story.

Spotted this in Glastonbury at the weekend - it’s a very pro trans place considering the amount of ‘Goddess’ temples etc..

Morning @SwordOfOmens ! Just caught up with your thread. What the chuff?!

Good on you for standing up for women. You were great on the telly. Good luck on Talk Radio. I will listen in.

It looks like there are a good number of similar minded people on this thread, so I hope you can support each other. It's crap being alone with this, you can think you're going crazy!

All the best 💪💪💪

I know I live there.

From what I heard some of the Goddess Temples attracted controversy for being focused on actual women. Not sure if that is still the case.