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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Witch ‘thrown off druid training course’ in trans row

153 replies

OhBuggerandArse · 30/05/2025 20:50

This is a story with a bit of everything (not making light of it, sounds like Angela had the usual gruelling time in the face of typical TRA shenanigans, but the range of incidental detail is.... pretty extra).

https://archive.is/6goQB

OP posts:
OldCrone · 01/06/2025 15:13

LonginesPrime · 01/06/2025 14:34

In the UK it would have been GIDS who were expanding their services in response to changes in international practices, and according to their Wikipedia page, it was in 2009 that GIDS became “a nationally commissioned NHS service” and subsequently opened another branch in Leeds.

It seems they started administering puberty blockers to select children from 12 on the NHS in 2011, and then activists began pressuring the government to increase access to these ‘treatments’.

I think you've misunderstood what I was asking, and this really is a derail from the topic of this thread now.

SwordOfOmens · 01/06/2025 15:49

Here I am, just got off the telly. I didn't get to say everything I wanted to, due to time constraints, but I'm so grateful for being given a voice https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1929179983705952636?t=kOR15LYLgMHR9GNLMLNp_Q&s=19

https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1929179983705952636?s=19&t=kOR15LYLgMHR9GNLMLNp_Q

LonginesPrime · 01/06/2025 16:10

SwordOfOmens · 01/06/2025 15:49

Here I am, just got off the telly. I didn't get to say everything I wanted to, due to time constraints, but I'm so grateful for being given a voice https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1929179983705952636?t=kOR15LYLgMHR9GNLMLNp_Q&s=19

You were amazing, @SwordOfOmens!

You explained the pronoun thing and your whole story so succinctly and clearly and articulated the issue so incredibly well.

I’m not religious myself but I was really impressed with how you managed to weave the tenets of your beliefs in with the women’s rights issues at play in such an accessible way for non-Pagans.

And I’m really glad your interview referred to the SC ruling and what the law says at the end.

Just perfect!

SionnachRuadh · 01/06/2025 16:22

Brilliant @SwordOfOmens, you put it perfectly.

WyrdyGrob · 01/06/2025 16:42

I love your hat @SwordOfOmens

SwordOfOmens · 01/06/2025 18:22

I appreciate that, it was very nerve wracking! I wanted to state I was left wing on air, because the silence from left wing media has been deafening. And as soon as you say anything remotely in favour of women, you immediately get called far right. Annoying.

MarieDeGournay · 01/06/2025 18:31

SwordOfOmens · 01/06/2025 18:22

I appreciate that, it was very nerve wracking! I wanted to state I was left wing on air, because the silence from left wing media has been deafening. And as soon as you say anything remotely in favour of women, you immediately get called far right. Annoying.

It's so unusual to be able to put a face to a username, so it was great being able to see you putting forward your ideas - and our ideas, the ones about sex anyway - so coherently and ably and articulately ...
you were brilliant, well done!

ArabellaScott · 01/06/2025 19:12

Well done, OP! You did great. I'm so sorry for what happened to you. Flowers

SpidersAreShitheads · 01/06/2025 19:33

I see Fred’s turned up on that Twitter thread to spout his usual anti-woman bollocks.

TheOtherRaven · 01/06/2025 19:59

SwordOfOmens · 01/06/2025 18:22

I appreciate that, it was very nerve wracking! I wanted to state I was left wing on air, because the silence from left wing media has been deafening. And as soon as you say anything remotely in favour of women, you immediately get called far right. Annoying.

Which is as insane as all the rest of it. The Far Right, like Nazis, were not in the least renowned for being promoters and fans of women having rights and equalities.

It's just the current go to 'poo head' phrase of the mindless and dull.

SwordOfOmens · 01/06/2025 20:06

Advice please! I'm looking to recruit gender critical pagans for our cause, if you'd like to be involved at any level (from advice level up to action taking) please DM me and we can talk.

onceandneveragain · 01/06/2025 21:02

Plasticwaste · 01/06/2025 04:37

What a load of baloney. A super-special Chosen One male main character. Groundbreaking!

What book is it, so I can avoid it?

Modern publishing must always push The Message. No wonder Coughlan is involved, she loves the Omnicause.

her majesty's royal coven

do not recommend, unless you want to conduct a medical experiment to see if it is actually possible to roll your eyes so far they get stuck in the back of your head.

Plasticwaste · 01/06/2025 21:30

onceandneveragain · 01/06/2025 21:02

her majesty's royal coven

do not recommend, unless you want to conduct a medical experiment to see if it is actually possible to roll your eyes so far they get stuck in the back of your head.

By Juno Dawson - that will explain it!

Even the reviewers on Goodreads don't appear to like it (with the requisite million disclaimers about how much of a trans ally they are).

NeilSaysHi · 01/06/2025 21:57

SwordOfOmens · 01/06/2025 20:06

Advice please! I'm looking to recruit gender critical pagans for our cause, if you'd like to be involved at any level (from advice level up to action taking) please DM me and we can talk.

SwordOfOmens, I'm a member of the group Gender Critical Pagans on Facebook. I left the Pagan Fed's LGBTQIA group after joining in the mistaken belief that I could converse with other gay male pagans, only to be told to "examine my bigotry" when I said that as a gay man I wouldn't consider dating a transman. This came from a heterosexual bloke in a chiffon scarf and a pink beret who claimed to be "gender fluid". Please look us up on Facebook, it's not a particularly big or busy group but it's reassured me that there are more of us than I realised.

Pawse · 01/06/2025 22:16

Blimey @SwordOfOmens you were great! Very articulate and clear.

Well done!

TheAutumnCrow · 02/06/2025 05:41

SwordOfOmens · 01/06/2025 20:06

Advice please! I'm looking to recruit gender critical pagans for our cause, if you'd like to be involved at any level (from advice level up to action taking) please DM me and we can talk.

Good luck, and I enjoyed seeing you the telly being articulate and lucid about your beliefs.

Kalithoscope · 02/06/2025 07:03

@SwordOfOmens was that you on the OBOD Facebook page too? The name seems similar?

I spoke too soon re OBOD. (The Order of Bards, Ovates and Druids.) I'd missed some stuff. They sent out a statement after the ruling saying how safe OBOD is for trans people. Then in the recent internal magazine of the order there was a big scolding from Eimear, the chief of the order, about the "hate" posted on Facebook - the hate I saw was from the people closing down those who spoke about women's safety and the reality of the ruling. They were mocked, yelled at, called cunts, and every other post was a demand they be blocked from the group or leave. I'm honestly shocked that it was allowed to stand. It seems to me the height of hypocrisy. On the Hearth, the member's group, it's less abusive, but similar in tone - endless condemnation of "anti-trans" sentiments and praise of OBOD for their liberal stance, very little condemnation of the abuse levelled at GC members or anyone who dared to point out any actual facts about the judgement or the GC stance.

Never seen them speak about VAWG or femicide.

A lot of the members are American and as often happens they think they're arguing with their own ultra-right. They have no awareness of the context, not that I think they'd care if they did.
Eimear is Irish so her political context is different too, but OBOD is a British organisation, and the people speaking were not saying anything illegal or wrong, they were stating beliefs that we know have been judged not to be hate speech, re Forstater, Allison Bailey, etc. They shouldn't have been shouted down for that. I've never seen anyone be spoken to like that in the context of OBOD before, and the leadership seems perfectly happy with it. I'm no stranger to online abuse on this issue, but for it to be pretty much encouraged by the organisation and then for the (mostly) women speaking to be identified as the sole problem and told off for speaking out has shocked me where I thought I couldn't be shocked any more. Of course trans people should be safe in OBOD and of course people should be allowed to express negative opinions re the ruling, whoever or wherever they are, but there is not only one set of opinions on this and they shouldn't be allowed to demonise GC women like this.

Where the FUCK is our safe space? I have not, and would not EVER, speak to or about a trans person the way I've just seen women spoken to and about in what is supposed to be an inclusive group. But it's funny to think just how thunderous the rage would be if I did, versus what happens when GC women are bullied like that - ie, absolutely nothing. Actually, cheers and praise for the abusers.

I'm so tired of this shit. This one really hurts. I get hit by this crap everywhere. work in a creative field and I can't say what I think there. I've just left a lot of spaces/organisations. I would have no career if I was honest (it's very transatlantic.) With family members. I'm left-wing and I'm so sick of so many of my fellow leftists. As fellow neopagans can probably understand it can be quite lonely following this path. No organisation is perfect, but with OBOD I thought I'd found one big enough and well-organised enough that I could participate and maybe find something of a community, maybe even take my kids along to some events. (It can be hard to find child-friendly pagan spaces.)

I don't expect them to agree with me. But nor do I expect to have to see people being verbally abused, not for hateful or actually discriminatory behaviour, but just for agreeing that single-sex spaces should be defined and organised by biological sex. For the safety of women.

Gettingbysomehow · 02/06/2025 07:38

NeilSaysHi · 01/06/2025 21:57

SwordOfOmens, I'm a member of the group Gender Critical Pagans on Facebook. I left the Pagan Fed's LGBTQIA group after joining in the mistaken belief that I could converse with other gay male pagans, only to be told to "examine my bigotry" when I said that as a gay man I wouldn't consider dating a transman. This came from a heterosexual bloke in a chiffon scarf and a pink beret who claimed to be "gender fluid". Please look us up on Facebook, it's not a particularly big or busy group but it's reassured me that there are more of us than I realised.

I'll be looking that up for sure. I. Already in trouble at work for refusing to put my pronouns on everything so why not 😂

Bluebootsgreenboots · 02/06/2025 07:42

Beautifully explained @SwordOfOmens - well done and thank you !

SerafinasGoose · 02/06/2025 08:31

Gettingbysomehow · 31/05/2025 00:19

Hi Angela. Most of us practising witches and occultists are underground now. We want nothing to do with pagan federations and their bullshit conferences and pride parades.
They are irrelevant to us.
They attract the wrong sort of people.
It's disgusting the way you were treated. I hope you fins some more sensible people to practise with.

Respect. I'm another who walks alone. 💐

Kalithoscope · 02/06/2025 09:59

TeiTetua · 31/05/2025 13:14

I'm sorry, someone says "Druid training course" and I can't help responding with chortles. It's an idea that Monty Python never thought of doing!

So they're a bunch of sexists, though one confident guess is that the real Druids were too. We've got enough nonsense of our own without making up stuff and claiming it's 2000 years old. Join the Woodcraft Folk instead.

This thread shouldn't really be a debate about whether people think Druidry is stupid or not. You're welcome to, but it's not really the point.

Very few people practising Druidry believe what they're doing is 2000+ years old. There are some more reconstructionist orders but not lots. Druidry as it is in OBOD or BDO is more like a collection of practices based around mythology, animism, and nature-worship, and draws ideas from many places. In some ways the name "Druidry" is more of an accident based on 18th and 19th century ideas about Druids and the image constructed at that time of the ancient Druids. Though some inspiration is drawn from evidence and speculation about them too. Personally I have no problem with that. All religion and philosophy is constructed by humans. It's a hodgepodge because Western pantheism/animism/ indigenous practices were destroyed, lost or assimilated, so what else would it be? Cultural appropriation is a line that has to be walked carefully. Historical inaccuracy too, and many times that line has been crossed for me with many pagan traditions, you have to use your own brain. But naturally you have to, because it's not a religion with a central authority/ set of teachings/ holy book. People within it or allied to it believe many different things. For many it's primarily experiential and about relationship with the land.

People who call themselves Druids are mostly not idiots cosplaying something they don't understand. They are mostly aware that what they are doing is mostly new.

SwordOfOmens · 02/06/2025 11:20

It absolutely is about the relationship with the land, the love and preservation of it, the cycles of life. And of honouring the ancestors who are part of the earth. Its connection to the sacredness of life. Its about stories and art and song.

It's many things to different people.

The pagan community is struggling at the moment because of the forced ideology that people can change sex. Men cosplaying as women are an affront to the goddess. Without the female power to create, there is no portal from which life can come forth. It is being peddled as transphobic.

Goddess to some is a literal goddess, to others, it means every female creature on earth, because the power to nurture new life is a divine act. Not all Pagans believe in gods and goddesses. Some are atheist. All are valid. What isn't valid, is denying someone the right to their own path, which is what the pagan federation are doing. Banning anyone who believes in the sacredness and reality of male and female.

SidewaysOtter · 02/06/2025 11:21

This thread shouldn't really be a debate about whether people think Druidry is stupid or not. You're welcome to, but it's not really the point.

I completely agree. I know pagan beliefs can seem odd or funny to others and that's why I rarely talk about it to people who aren't of a similar faith, but a bit of respect for something - even if you don't agree with it - goes a long way. And I say that for any religious belief, not just paganism.

For me, paganism is immensely practical and to do with honouring nature and the natural/agricultural year. I believe in magic but in the same way that a Christian believes in prayer. My personal experiences give me reason to believe in deity/a higher power but I appreciate that's not for everyone.

All of that said, some people who call themselves pagans seem very much in it for the attention-seeking aspect, which gets right on my wick(a)* and gives the rest of us a bad/ridiculous name.

(*Yes, I know that's not how it's spelt!)

SidewaysOtter · 02/06/2025 11:22

SwordOfOmens · 02/06/2025 11:20

It absolutely is about the relationship with the land, the love and preservation of it, the cycles of life. And of honouring the ancestors who are part of the earth. Its connection to the sacredness of life. Its about stories and art and song.

It's many things to different people.

The pagan community is struggling at the moment because of the forced ideology that people can change sex. Men cosplaying as women are an affront to the goddess. Without the female power to create, there is no portal from which life can come forth. It is being peddled as transphobic.

Goddess to some is a literal goddess, to others, it means every female creature on earth, because the power to nurture new life is a divine act. Not all Pagans believe in gods and goddesses. Some are atheist. All are valid. What isn't valid, is denying someone the right to their own path, which is what the pagan federation are doing. Banning anyone who believes in the sacredness and reality of male and female.

If I could "love" this post more than once I would!

SwordOfOmens · 02/06/2025 11:22

I'm looking for pagans to join my activist movement, please do dm me!