Are toilets still allowed to be cleaned by members of the opposite sex?

[PoisedRubyLion]

I see signs saying toilets may be cleaned by members of the opposite sex in a lot of places. Is this allowed after the supreme court ruling? If a male cleaner was in there it would be a mixed sex space.

Yep. Some men just don't think of the optics when they suggest little boys should use men's toilets unaccompanied.

People listening to the radio and hearing that will picture the scene and shudder.

They really do our work for us sometimes.

Ok. Who sent up the batshit signal??? Own up!!!

I was just going to ask this.

No one has ever said that opposite sex cleaners have a "right" to use those toilets. They clean them with a sign saying they are there so users will know. Everyone knows their sex.

It's no differernt than a male plumber coming n to repair the ladies loo.

Often they will leave if someone really needs to come in and use the toilet before they are done.

It's nothing to do with the SC ruling.

What is your point?
You feel women should be nervous that people dressed cleaners will attack them, even though they've put a sign outside the door, warning women they're there?
How ridiculous are you?
Let go of the straws

For clarity, If a trans identifying male cleaner with lipstick and a skirt was cleaning the loos, I wouldn't have an issue with it, so long as he put the sign up to warn women.
I've no issues with trans identifying males when they aren't barging into women only spaces.

The point is that if a man wants to assault a woman they won’t bother disguising themselves as a woman they’ll just do it. There’s so many cases where a man has simply gone into the ladies toilets (not dressed as anything) and raped someone. If they’re willing to commit a crime they’re not going to care about going into the ‘wrong’ toilet.
and honestly, I would probably feel much more confused/uncomfortable if a trans man came into the ladies toilets than a trans woman (who probably just looks like a woman).

I have a part time cleaning job just for extra cash and to be honest I hate being put in the section where I have to clean the mens toilet.
I’m told by management to just knock and shout out to make sure there’s no one in there but seeing as I been flashed at 4 times throughout my life I do say a little prayer every time that I’m not going to be faced with a weirdo with his knob out.
My manager is a misogynistic twat who wouldn’t get get it.
I don’t know if other cleaners feel this way or it’s just my life experiences that make me uncomfortable with it though.

I worried aloud about this the other day, because Circumferences is wrong - "man" in the EA clearly does include male babies, it was clarified in the Supreme Court hearings that the purpose of the "any age" definition in the EA is to include children. My concern was that although to us it's common sense that nobody objects to other-sex small children in a single-sex toilet, there are people who think it's common sense that nobody objects to trans people there, so that argument doesn't solve the issue. However, I think the answer to my worry is what NextRinny said about it not strictly being the space, but the service, that is single-sex. I think the male baby isn't the service user. The service user is his mother, and the service provided is toilet facilities for adults and their small children who need to be accompanied.

Any lawyers here who can comment, or anyone seen comment by any of the knowledgeable lawyers?

But that many men do indeed assault women while pretending to be female.
Trans identifying males are just as likely as regularly dressed males to commit violent crime against women

Even if the supreme court ruling did mean that men could no longer clean womens toilets then that would be a small price to pay for keeping men out of womens prisons, rape therapy groups, sports etc etc

The supreme court ruling is about more than toilets..

I don’t think the OP is being so outrageously daft as people are suggesting. A lot of the arguments against transwomen using female toilets would also apply - women who have suffered abuse don’t feel safe with males in there, Muslim women should have the space free of males etc.

Muslim women can chose not to use a facility if they know a man is present. They lose that choice if they are not told that a male person might be in the facility. They are unable to consent.

Likewise children. Muslim women can be in the company of little boys because little boys are not men. They can take their own little boys into the female facilities and they can use those facilities if the little boys of other women are also present.

It's not rocket science.

Yeah but the toilet that they choose to use doesn’t influence that. Excluding trans women from ladies toilets doesn’t stop them from assaulting women, but it does make them more likely to be assaulted themselves.

I’ve read the responses and still don’t understand why this wouldn’t be an issue for you. You all talk about the discomfort a woman who has just had her period would feel if she came out of a stall with her hands covered in blood to see a man. The way her primal instincts would kick in and feel an intense, innate fear of seeing a man in a woman’s space. That’s one of the main talking points on this website.

Using your logic, would she think ‘wait, that’s a cleaner! How silly of me!’ or would she have that instinctive fear?

Just to clarify I reject the premise, but I think you should inspect the clear double standard happening here.

It's almost like some people have forgotten how the world worked 10 years ago....

Yes, here we go:

Example
13.4.3 A council swimming pool has separate men’s and women’s changing rooms. One of the aims of having separate-sex changing rooms is to safeguard women’s ability to access the facilities and use them safely. A woman is allowed to take her male child under the age of ten into the women’s changing room. This does not undermine the aim, because it is unlikely that young boys pose a threat to women’s safety. It also contributes towards achieving the aim, because fewer women would be able to use the swimming pool if they could not bring their children with them.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/equality/equality-act-2010/codes-practice/code-practice-consultation-2025-changes-chapter-13

Excluding trans women from ladies toilets doesn’t stop them from assaulting women

It's excluding men. All men, however they identify. You think letting all men access female only spaces will make them safer for women?

It's men doing the assaulting. It's their problem to sort out. No women's. Women are not shields for men.

'Excluding trans women from ladies toilets doesn’t stop them from assaulting women, but it does make them more likely to be assaulted themselves.'

Quiet bit out loud?

At least it's honest.

Good grief. "Operation let them speak" is reaching new heights of lunacy.

Tho I'd quite like to see certain transactivists standing outside the women's changing rooms pointing out to parents that as mothers are taking their toddler sons into the swimming pool changing rooms these middle aged men claiming to be women will be following her in and undressing alongside her "cos that's the law innit" 😅

The general public are already pissed off with all this and these ludicrous demands from dodgy men will have people on speed dial to the police.

Letting children into a toilet with their parent is completely different to letting adults in.

This is obvious - and TBH, starting to sound like a threat to mothers - 'let the blokes in or you'll have to send your 3 year old son into the gents alone'

Call me crazy, but I'm not here to make easier for them.

Just as I'm sure a burglar will find their way into my house if they really want to, but that doesn't mean I'm leaving the front door open for them.

HTH.

To add to this helpful analysis, in the case of the young boy child, he is not a service user in his own right. He is, in effect, a non-independent appendage of his parent, so needs to go in the toilet for the relevant parent’s sex. It is the parent who is the service user, not the child.

Ah, here's yet more threat - if we don't let the men in, then the little boys will have to go in the dangerous men's toilets.

If we let the men in, then what makes the ladies any safer?

Exactly how dangerous are men's toilets? My boys go in them alone now they're older - they did since they were 8 or 9, they are clearly more vulnerable than an adult, yet you're happy with them going in the mens, but not actual men?

I agree with you. And if I’d read to the end of the thread before posting I would not have needed to make the same point myself.

All kudos goes to @MyAmpleSheep . I was only requoting her as I am fully aware of the TRA tactic of claiming "no explanation given" just after the explanation...

They constantly weave a tangled web of feigned ignorance.