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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Guardian briefing against Baroness Falkner & the EHRC

173 replies

GreenUp · 26/05/2025 20:20

The Guardian's TRA journalists Libby Brooks and Peter Walker have today published two articles briefing against Baroness Falkner and the EHRC.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/may/26/uk-equality-watchdog-months-sign-off-gender-guidance-mps-fear

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/26/splits-labour-supreme-court-gender-ruling

It's concerning that they are still suggesting Harriet Harman will take over.

OP posts:
OldCrone · 27/05/2025 21:19

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 20:40

I’m suggesting that if someone passed they should continue as they did before.

Before you put words in my mouth, I’m not suggesting the person never needs to disclose their trans status. For example, romantic partners have the right to know. But otherwise I don’t see how it’s anyone’s business.

So you agree that sex by deception (a crime) is wrong.

Are there any other circumstances in which you think it is necessary for someone to disclose their sex?

What about a male doctor examining a woman who has requested a female doctor?

sanluca · 27/05/2025 21:21

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 21:17

Is it a tiny minority? Or is the number of trans women in the UK is so tiny that this is a completely overblown issue? The way people talk here you’d think they’re clocking trans people left and right all day long. In the last six month, I think I wondered about someone once in-person.

If it is tiny and overblown then what is the issue with this tiny minority using the mens as the chances of men encountering transwomen in the mens is tiny and the risk is overblown?

OldCrone · 27/05/2025 21:21

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 20:21

What about before the Equality Act? It’s always been illegal

So it's always been illegal, but it's also not a crime but only something that's "looked down upon by some people".

Which is it? A crime or not a crime?

OldCrone · 27/05/2025 21:24

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 21:17

Is it a tiny minority? Or is the number of trans women in the UK is so tiny that this is a completely overblown issue? The way people talk here you’d think they’re clocking trans people left and right all day long. In the last six month, I think I wondered about someone once in-person.

Since it's impossible to tell the difference between a man pretending to be a woman and any other man, if we allow men pretending to be women into women's spaces we have to let all the other men in as well.

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 21:26

OldCrone · 27/05/2025 21:21

So it's always been illegal, but it's also not a crime but only something that's "looked down upon by some people".

Which is it? A crime or not a crime?

I was simply repeating what everyone here said. It’s always been illegal, but no one can back that up.

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 21:34

OldCrone · 27/05/2025 21:24

Since it's impossible to tell the difference between a man pretending to be a woman and any other man, if we allow men pretending to be women into women's spaces we have to let all the other men in as well.

Seriously, in the last year how many men have you found using the ladies?

I can think of one time in the last year there was a TW in the toilets. I was in the stall and I knew when I heard her speak.

nothingcomestonothing · 27/05/2025 21:38

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 21:34

Seriously, in the last year how many men have you found using the ladies?

I can think of one time in the last year there was a TW in the toilets. I was in the stall and I knew when I heard her speak.

And if you're a nurse in Darlington, it's every day. Once again, your personal preferences and experiences are not a sound basis for public policy.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 27/05/2025 21:39

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 21:34

Seriously, in the last year how many men have you found using the ladies?

I can think of one time in the last year there was a TW in the toilets. I was in the stall and I knew when I heard her speak.

Personally?

1 at the train station
1 at the airport
2 at a conference I was at

none of then passed but equally
they were not challenged because you know challenging men who are already transgressing boundaries just by being there when they know they are men tends to be really bloody scary

Theeyeballsinthesky · 27/05/2025 21:40

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 21:34

Seriously, in the last year how many men have you found using the ladies?

I can think of one time in the last year there was a TW in the toilets. I was in the stall and I knew when I heard her speak.

him speak - they were male

SionnachRuadh · 27/05/2025 21:49

Not to mention that bloke with a beard who wasn't even trying to pass but just smirked and said "I'm gender fluid"

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/05/2025 22:00

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/05/2025 21:12

What you are saying is you feel it is ok to deceive women that a man is secretly in their space. It’s not ethical.

It comes down to this @PoisedRubyLion whichever way you slice it. Women’s feelings of boundary violation aren’t based on whether you think your lovely male friends pass as women.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/05/2025 22:01

I’d lay money that they don’t, but it’s not relevant.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 27/05/2025 22:02

SionnachRuadh · 27/05/2025 21:49

Not to mention that bloke with a beard who wasn't even trying to pass but just smirked and said "I'm gender fluid"

If their gender is so fluid they can change it back to man every time they need a piss, can't they?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 27/05/2025 22:05

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 21:34

Seriously, in the last year how many men have you found using the ladies?

I can think of one time in the last year there was a TW in the toilets. I was in the stall and I knew when I heard her speak.

It's not about how often it happens. It's about the fact that there's nothing to stop it happening.

If you let trans women in, you have to let all other men in.

Both in a practical sense, because there is no way of distinguishing between a trans woman and a man (they are both just men), and legally, because the Supreme Court judgment has confirmed that if you are including trans women in a women only space you have incorrectly applied the single sex exemption and are illegally discriminating against other men.

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 22:09

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 27/05/2025 22:05

It's not about how often it happens. It's about the fact that there's nothing to stop it happening.

If you let trans women in, you have to let all other men in.

Both in a practical sense, because there is no way of distinguishing between a trans woman and a man (they are both just men), and legally, because the Supreme Court judgment has confirmed that if you are including trans women in a women only space you have incorrectly applied the single sex exemption and are illegally discriminating against other men.

I don’t know if I buy that there is no way to tell the difference. Is it not possible to tell when someone is making an effort vs a man taking the piss?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 27/05/2025 22:13

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 22:09

I don’t know if I buy that there is no way to tell the difference. Is it not possible to tell when someone is making an effort vs a man taking the piss?

No, it isn't.

HTH.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 27/05/2025 22:14

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 22:09

I don’t know if I buy that there is no way to tell the difference. Is it not possible to tell when someone is making an effort vs a man taking the piss?

And even if we could tell whether someone really, genuinely believes they feel womanly inside or is just taking the piss, how do you legislate for that difference?

nothingcomestonothing · 27/05/2025 22:15

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 22:09

I don’t know if I buy that there is no way to tell the difference. Is it not possible to tell when someone is making an effort vs a man taking the piss?

It doesn't matter how much 'effort' they make. They're all men, no man can try so hard he becomes a woman. Was Isla Bryson making an effort? He had a wig, and pink leggings and everything!

Kissedbyfire1 · 27/05/2025 22:15

moggly · 26/05/2025 20:43

One senior Labour MP, Meg Hillier, highlighted the plight of a person who has long lived as a woman, uses women’s changing rooms in her job with the ambulance service, and now fears being forced to tell colleagues she is transgender.

That's on him for deceiving his colleagues. No doubt his female colleagues will be very uncomfortable knowing he lied about being a woman so he could undress with them.

Unlikely that his colleagues are deceived. More likely they’re just polite.

Brainworm · 27/05/2025 22:22

So, does the sex of the ambulance service member matter or not?

If it doesn’t matter, what is the problem with other’s finding out? If it does matter, they should have always known and not have been deceived.

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 22:31

Brainworm · 27/05/2025 22:22

So, does the sex of the ambulance service member matter or not?

If it doesn’t matter, what is the problem with other’s finding out? If it does matter, they should have always known and not have been deceived.

Might it be that this person doesn’t want all their colleagues to know they’re transgender? Even though gender reassignment is a protected characteristic, it doesn’t stop people from being shitty.

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 22:33

nothingcomestonothing · 27/05/2025 22:15

It doesn't matter how much 'effort' they make. They're all men, no man can try so hard he becomes a woman. Was Isla Bryson making an effort? He had a wig, and pink leggings and everything!

Isla Bryson is a disgusting predator. If you commit a violent or sexual crime, I don’t believe you should be allowed to change your name, gender or access transition services. A transgender person shouldn’t be able to claim gender dysphoria and also commit a sexed crime.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 27/05/2025 22:35

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 22:31

Might it be that this person doesn’t want all their colleagues to know they’re transgender? Even though gender reassignment is a protected characteristic, it doesn’t stop people from being shitty.

Their right to privacy doesn't trump other people's right not to be deceived.

Brainworm · 27/05/2025 22:37

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 22:31

Might it be that this person doesn’t want all their colleagues to know they’re transgender? Even though gender reassignment is a protected characteristic, it doesn’t stop people from being shitty.

People are shitty to black people, disabled people, gay people, women etc. This is wrong and should be stopped.

Women have a right to single sex provision, the fact that some people are shitty to others isn’t a good enough reason to deny women single sex provision.

I campaigned to ensure single sex provision is single sex only. I’ll also campaign for trans people’s rights to be free from people being shitty towards them.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/05/2025 22:38

So much special pleading. All for men to be able to ignore women’s feelings and needs.