Guardian briefing against Baroness Falkner & the EHRC

[GreenUp]

The Guardian's TRA journalists Libby Brooks and Peter Walker have today published two articles briefing against Baroness Falkner and the EHRC.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/may/26/uk-equality-watchdog-months-sign-off-gender-guidance-mps-fear

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/26/splits-labour-supreme-court-gender-ruling

It's concerning that they are still suggesting Harriet Harman will take over.

I don’t understand this logic. Why do we want to force people with gender dysphoria and intense discomfort with their sex into a space that will make that worse?

Why don’t you say that person should use a gender neutral space?

Obviously a gender neutral space is the best place for them, if one exists.

But if it doesn't, why do you think their discomfort matters more than women's?

I'm sure the ban on sending children up chimneys or under weaving machines caused problems, for the chimney sweeps.and factory owners. The drink driving laws cause problems for people who like to drive home after 12 pints in the pub, the marital rape law causes issues for men who want to have the right to use their wife's body whether she agrees or not, there are many laws which inconvenience people. Shall we all just obey the ones we fancy? I might start driving my sheep over the town bridge.

I don't understand you not understanding

I don't think being sad about your body has much to do with it. You said your friend stopped using the gents because of other men and their comments. Then they are the problem yes?

Men need to man up and mind they business

She realised making women uncomfortable was a risk and did everything she could to be respectful and minimise the risk. Just because you disagree it doesn’t make her behaviour “male coded”.

The way to 'minimise the risk' was for him not to go into women's single sex spaces at all. He decided his comfort mattered more.

How come this woman's comfort is so much more important than all the other women's comfort, to you? If he was actually a woman and was being treated like a woman, he'd be told to suck it up. The only reason he's prioritised is because he's really a man.

If you think there should be more gender neutral spaces for your male friends who don’t want to use men’s toilets, you crack on then. It’s nothing to do with women.

If your friend genuinely passes to everyone as female then no one will notice, but don’t expect us to be happy with being deceived against our consent. But I suspect that isn’t actually the case, like it isn’t for 99% of these male people.

No.

If your friend realised this was a risk, "everything [she] could to be respectful and minimise the risk" would have been not using women's spaces.

I don’t see why it’s deceptive for her to exist without telling every woman she comes across that she was born male

If your friend isn't somewhere men aren't allowed to be, it's none of anyone's business what sex they are.

Bingo! 'the right to exist'.

Isn't the issue more that your friend would have to tell every man he comes across in the men's toilets that he's a man?

I'm getting so naffed off with hearing "the right to exist" from people who literally think we don't need a word or a legally recognised category for "female people".

That's a man problem then, it's not the purpose of women to solve men's problems for them.

Your friend should have just said 'no I'm not', not invade a space he had no right being in. Simples really.

But your friend is a man, not a woman, and he knows the women’s space isn’t actually for him. So obviously it’s deceptive 🙄 in Tesco doing the shopping no one is going to care. But your friend isn’t welcome in spaces which for reasons of privacy and dignity are intended for women. Even if he sneaks in undetected.

The Supreme Court has made it extremely clear that men are to be classified by biological sex, not identity.

Like Fionne Orlander does, as I posted upthread and PP ignored. Men need to accept that gender non conformity is part of what it is to be a man,and accept transwomen in male spaces where they have the right to be.

If that’s what makes Fionne happy that’s great. It doesn’t mean it’s right for every trans person.

It’s not about where men feel “happy”. Women’s spaces do not revolve around the feelings of men, however comfortable they’ve made themselves in our spaces. They are not welcome.

You said it was impossible for your friend to use the mens. It clearly isn't as other transwomen do, including those who are very clearly wearing women's clothes, nails, makeup, and looking very groomed as Fionne is in that photo. Now you're saying it's because he's not happy in the men's? I expect lots of men aren't happy in the men's, they're still men just like your friend is so they use the men's.

So it's not about Fionne being happy, it's that Fionne's not a dick who thinks respecting women is unnecessary if it inconveniences a man.

I didn’t say she is just unhappy about going to the mens. She was extremely upset at the thought of having to use the mens if a neutral toilet isn’t available. It’s a deeply distressing thought for her.

This is like the pro-prostitution argument that disabled men should have a right to buy sex. Everything focused on the desires of the man, with no thought given to how women are being harmed.

No, it’s not. I was saying that instead of default position being that a TW should use the mens, we could say use a neutral toilet. It’s know that gender dysphoria can be very distressing, so why is everyone here so gleeful?

Well no, you said that your friend had to use the womens because he was clocked in the men's and you didn't see why he should have to stop. You said nothing about him using a neutral toilet you specifically said he shouldn't have to stop using women's spaces because it works for him and you don't mind.

Can two things not be true at once? My friend experienced lots of discomfort using the gents , but dealt with it until she was sure she passed.

Like people have said, if a trans person passes, no one will know anyway. That’s why it’s fine for my friend to carry.