Have I completely misunderstood GCSE biology...

[proximalhumerous]

...or is the purpose of spotting an anomaly not specifically to disregard it in order that it doesn't lead to an inaccurate conclusion?

If so, why is everyone fixating on DSDs as "proof" that sex is a spectrum, when the anomalous 1.7% (if indeed it is as high as that - from what I've read that figure is only achieved if you include conditions such as PCOS which have a tenuous claim at best to be one of the "intersex" variations) is clearly a set of results that don't fit. Because something has deviated from the norm. It's not like calculating the mean of a range of heights, FFS.

Please can someone more scientific than me explain what is going on here? Or is it simply that certain factions are so hell-bent on arguing that anyone with ladyfeels can be a woman they're happy to completely disregard any sort of science or logic in order to do so?

Oh, look a binary.

Sex is defined around gamete type. Including in reptiles where it is determined by temperature not chromosomes.

Presumably no sex specific health conditions either.

That’s nice dear. So how do you know which is male Karyotpe and which is female? And what karyotype do people with VSD have as you’re so determined to pitchfork them into your arguments.

I think you misunderstood the post entirely.
Various societies have understood that people are NOT always either male or female in the first place. They were perfectly familiar with 'other'.

There are MANY ways to verify that, but probably the easiest is set out in the Wiki pages on "intersex through history"

Are you using Wikipedia to support your arguments? That’s adorable!

We know about karyotype by research and actual biology.
And we also know that virtually nobody in the UK has a clue what their karyotype is.

Have you got anything more reliable than Wiki?

Even primary school children are warned not to quote Wikipedia in their homework. Your school are really failing you.

Just restating, because why not, that even if there were more than two sexes (which there aren't), that argument has precisely fuck all to do with the vast, overwhelming majority of biologically completely bog standard males who just want to use women's spaces.

Attempting to use sufferers painful and difficult medical conditions as a human shield for entitled men is fucking shameful, frankly. And we shouldn't be wasting any more time on it.

What does all your medical research have to do with self identification of gender? Your argument actually strengthens the argument that sex needs to be recorded according to medical definitions and never deviated from. This would clear up any confusion about access to single sex spaces: just use the medical definition of male and female, including the dsds, as the legal definition and done.

No XYs have given birth naturally.

If you’re including as men those with XX/XY DSDs who have an ovary, a womb and who’ve become pregnant naturally, then I think your definition of male is different to most people’s and that’s where the confusion lies.

In 99.9999% of cases they can guess their karyotype correctly. Variations away from XX and XY have impacts on development including cognition, morphology etc. that are generally picked up in early childhood.

Though karyotyping is pretty basic genetics. If there is concern about genetics then they are more likely to do exome testing or full genotype.

@Anteater1 · Today 10:22

I think you misunderstood the post entirely.
Various societies have understood that people are NOT always either male or female in the first place. They were perfectly familiar with 'other'.
There are MANY ways to verify that, but probably the easiest is set out in the Wiki pages on "intersex through history"

Various societies have awarded same-sex attracted men a position that entitles them to some male privileges (such as extra food) not available to women without giving them the status of those who become (or are regarded as) fathers of families.

It is complicated, culture specific and does not imply that they are regarded as non-male or as members of a 'third sex'.

There are only every two sexes in species that use anisogamous gametes for sexual reproduction. This is true for all animals and plants that use anisogamous gametes.

Even when a species contains both male and female reproductive systems (like snails, for example and quite a lot of plants ) they aren’t a third, distinct sex. They contain both male and female reproductive systems. When an individual, like a clown fish, changes from one sex to another, they don’t become a strange third sex. They switch from one to another. And we aren’t clown fish.

Chromosomes are the sex determinant factors in Mammals and birds. In other species, environmental factors can play a determinant role. The sex of a reptile is determined by temperature. Now, temperature is a spectrum, but you still get males and females. The determinant factors may not be binary, but the outcome is. And the same is true for chromosomes and humans. Sure, most of us are XX or XY but other combinations occur but the outcome is still the same, binary, makes and females. A man with XXY is still that, a man. Likewise a woman with XO is a a woman. They are no more some odd third sex than they are some form of human/gorilla mix or human/dolphin mix, based on them having 47 or 45 chromosomes.

Loads of points flying about
1- not all DSDs are "painful" as suggested. In fact, quite the reverse. Most go undiagnosed.
2- Medical science is clear, human sex is NOT a strict binary.
3- that does not mean there are three sexes, as suggest by some. It means that some people are neither, or both to a greater or lesser degree. It means, as science knows, humans are bimodal.
4- for those who don't like me referring to "the easiest" to read documents on historic understanding, perhaps 'Disorders of sex development (DSDs), their presentation and management in different cultures". Reviews in Endocrine and Metabolic Disorders, might help.
Alternatively, ANY of the Anthropology journals will.
5- what the published research also demonstrates is that incongruence is the result of biological process.
6- no gametes are NOT the determinate of sex. If it were, NOBODY would be given a label until expected age of puberty, then there would be MANY sexes based upon -
Those who produce ova
Those who produce sperm
Those who produce both
Those who produce neither
Those who did produce but now don't.

We can give a gamete any name we like, but it is NOT the determinate.
7- a great many different types of people require assistance to get pregnant or give birth. Assistance is not a determinant of sex, as anyone who used IVF, or simply can't, knows well.
Bottom line.....repeating human variation confirms that EVERY assertion about ONLY anything, is wrong.

A simple question with a clear yes or no: do you accept that rare medical conditions (whether you think those suggest more than two sexes or not) have fuck all to do with completely biologically standard males wanting to use women's spaces because of feelings in their heads?

Because I can't help but wonder why you're so invested in this, if the answer's yes.

Why do you think you know what a “female karyotype” is? 😂 where do you think the word “female” popped up from?

Sorting hat?

No, not the production of gametes, the formation of bodies around their production.

Of course some people are infertile. It doesn't mean their bodies haven't formed around the production of one gamete or the other.

Ok, we are back to pumpkin plants again. If sex is not defined by gametes then what are the common characteristics between a female spider and a female pumpkin plant that makes them both female?

Bizarre Isn't it. Sex is not binary, and to prove it, will give you an example of how they are binary!

not all DSDs are "painful" as suggested

I presume this is in reference to me saying people with differing karyotypes have visible differences? (Though I never said painful). Differing karyotypes is not the same as DSDs.

It is defined by gametes. It is just where gametes are not produced that you look at the body. Gametes by themselves, without any accompanying body, are still one of two sexes.

So how did these scientists determine who had a male karyotype amd who had a female karyotype if no one can tell who is male and female? You’ve just contradicted your own argument. Bless you