TW who supports the SC ruling - AMA

[VanishingVision]

Hello! I was thinking of doing this post for a little while now as the previous posts doing this by the rather wonderful trans men here were really interesting but I didnt want to take up too much space here or take any attention away from much more important things here than what I have to say.

But I figured to just go for it before I have a big old break from the Internet for a while.

So like the title says, I'm a transwoman who accepts the SC ruling: ask me anything if you'd like to and I'll do my best to answer.

Maybe for some people it works. But I can't help thinking that denial of reality 24/7 isn't healthy.

I can agree with that 100%!

I noticed with my own teen, that the messaging was in no way coming from us as parents. The messaging that they must be the opposite sex came from interaction with peers at school and through media. Judging themselves against sexist stereotypes, again not displayed or reinforced by us at all.

Sadly, it happens despite us sometimes. And that messaging is very hard to counter. We live in a sexist society even though we may feel we have significant freedom.

Not always

Yes, I believe the general opinion is that sex specific roles are imposed on society.

Gender, in other words.

One of the truest things I've read and a lightbulb moment for me was when someone said women are oppressed on the basis of their sex, and gender is the way it's done.

I think many of us are reading and thinking similar thoughts. There is a direct reward in being thought to be a girl, even if it is only the attention in a chaotic life. And then there was the negative association with cutting hair short etc.

The issue is a therapist may seek to simply not challenge or challenge hard any of these memory associations. Therein lays the issue.

I understand plenty of people kick against sex stereotypes. You have plenty of gender nonconforming people.

What it doesn't do is address everyone else.

And, which was more my point, really, transgenderism is the opposite to gender non confirming.

Given there's no actual way to be the opposite sex, it has to be based on superficial things like looks, clothes, mannerisms.

I agree, times are different now to when my son was a teen. There would have been the opposite social pressure if he had made known he felt trans then.

Looking back, I know I ‘fought back’ by behaving as if I was a boy.

Lol 🤣 had to laugh at that. I'm a woman, unfortunately I'm not feeling too vibrant at the moment!

IKR!

It's as annoying now as it was then.

I just had visions of him wafting around in purple chiffon, vibranting himself everywhere. You know, like all women

🤣🤣

I did too which is why I left my son to get on with it. It wasn't until much later when he was a lot older that he transitioned, so completely out of my control. If he had wanted to do it as a child or young adult whilst living with me I wouldn't have gone along with it. So I do understand the worries and I think anger probably isn't too strong a word that parents of kids now feel at their children being pushed along this path.

@VanishingVision interesting - some of your experience mirrors my son's. I won't go into which ones - he thought he might be trans when he was around 13 years old - he thought being a girl and liking boys explained his feelings more than just being gay. I don't really understand how he thought trans was easier than gay. It was a heart stopping moment but I stayed cool, I encouraged him not to define himself at such an early age - adolescence can be very confusing - it's fine to like boys or girls and it's fine to be trans but don't allow yourself to be pigeon-holed at 13, to make choices that you struggle to back out of.

At 16 he decided he was gay and then maybe bi - he liked girls too, I encouraged him not to label himself - just live his life to the beat of his own drum.
He's in a long-term relationship now - he's confident but low-key in his sexuality - it doesn't define him - he doesn't tell people he's gay because he feels that it's not their business. Straight people don't announce their sexual preferences and he won't either - for him that's part of being equal.

Thankyou for this response I do really respect what you've had to say here (along with the others im trying to catch up). I do want to clear up a couple things that I thought I made clear in my post about my experiences.

I DON'T consider the thing about being upset my hair was cut (subsequently saying 'no one will think im a girl) and people thinking I was a girl having much traction or signs of GD and being a definite 'oh obvz I was meant to be female' thing, I was suprised to learn about it and I only did after I 'came out' and I don't have a recollection of it other than of having long hair. I mentioned it because it was the only young childhood thing I'm aware of regarding any 'gender' issues and I certainly wasn't treated like a girl because I was a boy.

Much like my experience of not fitting in with boys etc etc, i mention these things purely because I was talking about my experience. Being a feminine boy/masculine girl as a child doesn't make you trans, I've mentioned before elsewhere on this thread that i consider that way of thinking to be dangerous and I don't condone childhood transitioning, I do not wish I was transitioned as a child. I actually don't consider myself to have been that stereotypically feminine anyway.

I also don't have any intention to convince anyone here of anything at all (in case that wasn't clear) genuinely. I think this is something that many of us here just won't get to the bottom of be in agreement on but I do really appreciate the conversations being had here, others that stated my responses have been informative but I've found the responses of others very informative too when they've shared thoughts.

I do also still pursue therapy, and I do appreciate that this has been mentioned by several people here. It's also not a 'gender' therapist, it's primarily for trauma. There's alot to go on here.

This looks really interesting I'll definitely give this a watch when I'm able to as I think from the thumbnail thats Stella from Genspect? I always enjoy listening to her perspectives, I'm at a friend's atm so I'll watch this when I'm able!

It's something I've thought about before, did my late and weaker puberty in anyway impacted things?

No that's fine! I wasn't especially active as a young person I was quite quiet and just liked art and the moment I got really obsessed with music at 12 I wasn't really interested in anything else but I am really active as an adult, I love exercise. I really like dancing at concerts and when going out. I like swimming. I'm not into sports though, I'm not competitive and never have been. I do like dancing and exercise with other people but I'm also quite content to be solo much like any activities.

I don't really understand how he thought trans was easier than gay.

I guess there are a couple of factors. Gay sex (the idea of it!) is a bit scary. Men are a bit scary, even if you're attracted to them, especially before the full hormone rush kicks in. And identifying as "gay" sets up so many unspoken expectations around sex. So I can see why a boy who maybe doesn't have such an intense sexual drive might think "gay's not for me". "Trans" is less of a declaration about sexual desire.

I also think that's why trans been so promoted to kids in schools now. Everyone wants to do LGBTetc but gay comes down to sexual desire and sexual activity, which are very adult. You can't tell little kids much about being gay and when you try it comes across a bit pervy, like that kids' book "Grandad's Pride". You can't openly celebrate gay sexuality even for older kids - "Taxi zum Klo" is not suitable school viewing. Rainbows, that works. Men in glittery frocks, that works. But "trans" is not about sexual activity at all(*), you can make it all about how you look and dress and talk and who you play with and what games you play. It's dangerously easy to present "trans" to very young children, and very easy give them a distorted view.

(*) well apart from the fetishists but we're not going there with kids

@VanishingVision I'd love to respond more personally to some of the things you've said but it's not only my story so I can't say that much.

Thankyou so much for sharing this with me. You sound like a really awesome and supportive mum, I hope he's doing well.

So to relate, I don't think my attraction to males lead to my being trans but I think it's interesting and worthwhile you bring up him 'being trans explained why he liked boys better than being gay' because I do think that happens in adolescence especially. There is still some stigma related to being gay/lesbian even now, its still considered this huge 'coming out' thing in some families so I can honestly see how some young gay/lesbian kids who are struggling to understand themselves could arrive at the trans thing first and not the gay thing.

I think your approach of 'you don't have to label anything, don't pigeon hole yourself just be you. It's okay where you end up just be you' is wonderful.

I don't have solid evidnce but I do think there must be some kind of connection between physical activity (or lack of it) and body discomfort/dysphoria? I'm glad you enjoy dancing, not something I've done recently and I miss it! When you're enjoying what your body can do you worry less about what shape it is and how people perceive it. I think so anyway. And I think Covid lockdown was another big factor, stopping young people enjoying themselves physically.

(Yes that's Stella O'Malley in the video. I massively appreciate what Genspect is doing.)

Thanks for your response.

Personally, I think it's sometimes hard to look back on a childhood using adult eyes. Because occasionally the smallest raised eyebrow, or a throw away comment can have a profound effect that we are not aware of at the time, and can't identify from a distance.

Even though we're convinced we do.

But personally, I've always viewed being trans, or wanting to be the opposite sex, as a symptom, not an end in itself (fetishism apart).

So my question would be, and I'm sorry if I may have missed you explaining, but what do you think is the reason for you wanting to be trans?

Where has the body dysphoria come from? What are you gaining by rejecting manhood? (I realise, that, certainly intellectually, you're not saying you're actually a woman).

Mostly, the characteristics of people wanting to be trans, include being on the spectrum, suffering from past sexual trauma, or being same-sex attracted.

Do you think there's something else?

This is a refreshing and interesting thread, thank you, OP.

I agree, its also hard to be clear about it looking because we just don't have the ability to see back that far clearly plus adult development I think could likely overcomplicate thinking about childhood events too, you know making more of them than what they actually are. I do have some weirdly clear and vivid memories of certain events but it's not anything to do with this subject at all.

I've honestly given so much thought and searching to what could have caused it. Leaving out anything prior, from the moment of resonating with the experiences of a TW and actually transitioning was a long process and involved a lot of denial that I felt that way, trying to draw a line elsewhere, think of other reasons and I did seek other help before going after the 'gender' stuff. So it wasn't a snap thing.

I have considered it could be trauma (I do accept that I have alot of it), I did consider that I couldn't accept my same-sex attraction for a time, I also considered that it could be due to me being entirely raised by women and having zero positive male models. I also considered it could be environmental, a result of upbringing, something that happened in the womb or something to do with my weak and delayed puberty.

After chasing these things with drs/therapists etc, I don't have any answer in the end for having dysphoria and being trans other than 'it is what it is'. I don't think it's a result of trauma or the other things I mentioned nor did my drs and therapists (the theory about hormone exposure in utero and my weak/delayed puberty holds some sway for me but I'm not a Dr or remotely scientifically minded so I can't comment) but I do accept the possibility of those things and to yourself and others here it's likely more explained by my trauma. At this point, whilst I still pursue therapy for trauma etc I do accept 'it is what is' towards the dysphoria/trans stuff and that actually brings me some peace.

I guess what I would have to gain from 'rejecting manhood' is not experiencing the dysphoria that my male characteristics caused me, which in turn enabled me to build the life i have now.

So, there's still no real definite 'this is why' at least in my conclusion.

You could be right, perhaps not directly influencing what 'made me trans' but you know it's a possibility maybe.
Oh absolutely, when your body isn't moving it affects your mind. Your mind has more places to go. I think lockdowns damaged an entire generation, quite honestly. I survived okay through them, but for young people in their formative years it must have been so damaging for them.

I do too, actually. I always like Stella's interviews, one of my favourites was the one she did with Corinna Cohn.

I'd love to respond more personally to some of the things you've said but it's not only my story so I can't say that much.

@MumOfYoungTransAdult Only just saw this other comment top, I would feel there's much you could do and I'd really interested. But I understand of course as it doesn't only involve yourself.

So, there's still no real definite 'this is why' at least in my conclusion.

Got it.

And thanks for the response.

Frankly, I have yet to see a transwoman on here who does have the answer. However much their experience might suggest something.

Maybe it's the human condition. The mistrust that something which feels so significant and overwhelming, could be generated by things that we consider quite inconsequential.

Either way, I hope you find answers, should you ever seek them.