TW who supports the SC ruling - AMA

[VanishingVision]

Hello! I was thinking of doing this post for a little while now as the previous posts doing this by the rather wonderful trans men here were really interesting but I didnt want to take up too much space here or take any attention away from much more important things here than what I have to say.

But I figured to just go for it before I have a big old break from the Internet for a while.

So like the title says, I'm a transwoman who accepts the SC ruling: ask me anything if you'd like to and I'll do my best to answer.

Making men's lives easier is not even on my list of priorities. That's men's job, not mine.

So get therapy instead of assuming you're a woman trapped in a man's body. Psychosomatic discomfort is not a special unique thing that only gender confused people experience, it's pretty widespread.

This is problem, isnt it?

People are talking about the definition of trans being too broad, and will include people without a diagnosis, therapy or hormones. But its taken on faith that the diagnosis is meaningful. Good therapists question the patients assumptions, but if GD is how a person feels, who can ultimately say the patient doesn't feel that way?

I am interested to read your perspective on this as a very good friend of mine has a young family member who from a very young age, 4 or 5, announced that they were not their birth sex (sorry if this I clumsy, I have phrased it like this for the sake of brevity and to protect identity, and have no wish to offend) So this conviction was formed without any outside influence at all and is free of any hint of social contagion, although I suppose that may have come into play subsequently. I don't think so though.

For a long time this was just treated as any other young boy wanting to play with dolls or girl wanting to play football with the boys. This youngster is now approaching 13 years old, the family and school have agreed to them presenting as the opposite sex to the one they were born, they accept the new name and pronouns.

Obviously puberty is about to hit and I don't in any way want to make this sound trivial but it will be interesting to see what happens. It seems to me to be the worst thing to make any medical intervention towards transition too early, and I think this aspect of the treatment of children has absolutely soured the debate and horrified many people.

I really struggle to understand how any man says they feel like a woman, how do they know what a woman feels like? - is this mainly the rejection of feeling like a man and therefore you adopt the opposite and think I must be woman. But feeling like a woman is a collection of experiences that define who you are for the year zero - if you are a transwoman you have a different collection of experiences that as a transwoman you can't replicate. We live by different standards - whether we like it or not - we (women) battle for equality on that basis. Transwomen battle for equality on a completely different basis, they can never be the same. We can never be part of the same - it's just insulting to both groups to think we can.

I am interested to read your perspective on this as a very good friend of mine has a young family member who from a very young age, 4 or 5, announced that they were not their birth sex (sorry if this I clumsy, I have phrased it like this for the sake of brevity and to protect identity, and have no wish to offend) So this conviction was formed without any outside influence at all and is free of any hint of social contagion, although I suppose that may have come into play subsequently. I don't think so though.

You do know the trans ideology has been in schools and on childrens tv for a decade now?

In Britain yes. This child was not brought up in Britain and has never been to school here. Perhaps wind your (patronising) neck in!?

@VanishingVision I for one am deeply grateful you started this thread - I was one of the "early responders" I've found the conversation and your thoughtful way of addressing issues very interesting....Yup, being derailed was annoying but once we came back to you, that was a relief....

In response to
h, I understand I'm not getting upset. Perhaps disheartened or concerned that I've taken up too much space here.

You can't take up too much space here - that is the joy of different threads - those who are interested engage, those who aren't usually move on if they are well-intentioned.... You came on here with tact and dignity and hesitancy and for that I am deeply appreciative

Thank you

@TonTonMacoute pretty rude of you mate.

i really do not buy that a child of the age you mention says i am not my birth sex or any comparative iteration.

a child of that age does not have the capacity to understand such a concept of otherness since they have not yet emerged from egocentricity.

it is possible they were more interested in more “female associated “ interests. And i suppose that if they were that being discouraged from that they might object.

the shorter version is you made that up.

You seem a bit touchy.

If you dont want people to comment on your post, you shouldn't post on a public forum.

This

"the metaphor of being a prisoner in a body that isn't mine." Such a bizarre take.

(1) Why would anyone assume that they are in the wrong body? Surely it is more illogical to assume that it is not the body 100% wrong, it is the brain that is a little bit confused / distressed?

(2) Why would anyone assume that the wrong body narrative is anything more than a quasi-religious belief, and why would anyone assume that others would change their lives to accommodate a quasi-religious belief?

(3) The whole wrong body narrative is, in my view, little more than an announcement of mental health issues (incl dysphoria) and that the person concerned does not believe that their MH issues need treating.

I think that from a medical point of view there really are only two treatment approaches that can possibly exist.

"This is a mental health issue and mental health issues require mental health treatment, not hormones and surgeries"

"People who claim to be trans have a unique condition, which involves the mind accurately self-diagnosing that the body is somewhere in the "not quite right" to "completely wrong" range due to secondary sex characteristics. We need to do whatever the patient says we should do"

Either we trust some or all patients, or we treat based on common sense and evidence (which I believe both conclude the same thing - no medical transition)

It also depends on an absurdly strict Cartesian mind/body split. As if the mind were just the brain and could live independently of the body. As you say, it works best in the context of quasi-religious belief.

This is where "transwoman" is such a deceptive term, suggesting that what is happening is about becoming a woman. Men Rejecting Manhood is much more accurate, because trying to be a woman is - by definition - a rejection of manhood, yet - given the binary and unchanging nature of sex - there is no becoming a woman is any sense at all. IMO

I would be rather hesitant declaring a child had no possibility of social contagion or outside influence if the school they are about to go to has agreed to allow them to join as the opposite sex.

That sounds to me like denial.

If any country’s school allows a child to join as the opposite sex, that is a country that likely needs its teaching resources checked for any content that may have influenced children.

Thank you! I mean raise a hand if you live with chronic pain, lipodema, or are an amputee. Or if a medication has caused weight gain, or if your skin seems to be allergic to AIR, or if your fundamentalist parents have never let you cut your hair - MOST people feel their bodies are in some way an enemy at some point.
It's the only body we have and our only mechanism for existing and experiencing the world. We ARE our bodies, whether we like it or not, and wishing you didn't have a peen doesn't justify inverting it to make a grotesque, non-functional facsimile of a vagina.

As a child, I hated pink and loved toy cars. I looked like a boy and acted like one. At 12 or 13, I too also had a boy’s name picked out and asked my mum to use it. She politely declined and said clearly, ‘you cannot change sex’.

This was decades ago. We had a poorly working TV and that is it. At that time there was truly no chance of ‘social contagion’. According to some people, apparently that would have been me expressing my identity.

No. It really wasn’t. Looking back, I realise it was me rejecting a sexist society, even then. I hated being female.

I never wanted pink anything. I wanted blue. Blue bedding, blue clothes. I still hate pink and wear mostly black.

When I see people declaring that as a child they just knew and then use sexist stereotypes to qualify that belief, I am sorry, but that is concerning behaviour. I think that is retconning a child hood shaped by sexist stereotypes at the very least.

Any child should be able to do any activity and have any interest that is healthy for them. To allocate any activity as being for girls or boys is sexism. And to base a child’s life decisions on that is hugely concerning. To allow a child to live as if they are materially something they materially are not is not making healthy choices for that child.

@VanishingVision Good idea to write to your MP. Letters from your perspective could be very powerful.

Would you mind saying, what are the health risks that you're aware of from the hormones you're taking? I've found it really difficult to get a clear picture of the physical effects. I've seen a lot of discussion online about psychology but surprisingly little about physical health.

This is true though, because there are so few studies on anything trans-related that doesn't have some amount of ideological bias (either for or against) the risks aren't always as clear if you try to look into it online.

Possible known health risks are clotting, slightly elevated higher risk of stroke and cardiovascular issues, gallstones, liver damage, polycythemia. The cancers I'm at risk of change too, far less risk of prostate cancer but higher risk of breast cancer.

Bone issues is considered by some to be a risk, but not by others providing you're mobile and active and working out. I've seen a few articles potentially relating cross-sex hormones to increased risk of dementia in later years.

I hugely agree with that last statement. A massive concern of mine is that we're basing so much of what interests a child has (or an adult for that matter) on whether they should have been a boy or girl. Colours, toys, sports, whatever etc are just things that anyone can enjoy if it suits them. That isn't good for anyone at all, even taking the 'trans' equation out of it all and I think that's gotten worse in recent years.

A male friend of mine played with dolls and a pushchair as a kid, and he's grew to be a regular straight man. I didn't have particularly stereotypical masculine or feminine interests as a child at all, I was more in drawing, art, nature and music (much like now) and I turned out how I did. I think it's just better to let kids express themselves and let them grow without making a decision for them 'what they are' based on that.

I also think any parent who convinces a school to allow their child to be treated as the opposite sex is acting in the very opposite of best interest of the child. Even before Dr Cass wrote in her report about the fact that it was not a neutral act, there were clinicians raising the alarm that changing pronouns, and changing sex markers for children. Not through ‘hatred’ but because ithad strong potential for locking them into an identity that then feel they can not change.

What they're really saying is that they 'feel like what their perception of being a woman is' and its often based more off of stereotypes. But really, they couldn't know much like I couldn't. I'm not a woman, I'm not female so I couldn't know that.

I've actuslly never said 'i feel like a woman' to anyone, I've always been very clear transitioning because of my sex characteristics makes me a transsexual and not the same as a woman. It's of course, down to anyone else what their perception of me is. I

As you say, different experiences. I would agree with you that what makes anyone a woman or a man is a culmination of both your biology and your lived experiences that relate to that. Ours are different. There's no universal experience but certainly many things you will share alongside members of your own sex that the opposite sex will not.

I also agree with that last statement, I've often considered saying TWAW something that takes away from my own personal experience (and your own) and how I've arrived at where I am today. I can appreciate wanting to be that inclusive despite agreeing with it, but I think saying that our experiences are entirely the same is just wrong.

I agree and have been reading with the greatest interest and have learned a lot.

Hi @TonTonMacoute Yes there are children who decide they are the other sex for a long time and from no apparent outside influence; usually they change their minds at puberty. One of the most active people against child transition went through this experience herself - that's therapist Stella O'Malley of the Genspect organisation and "Gender a Wider Lens" podcasts (which I found fascinating by the way even when episodes had nothing to do with me or my child!) She started thinking she was really a boy very young and kept going but changed her mind at puberty with no interference either way. It's why she is so strongly against transitioning children, there is simply no way to tell if the dysphoria will "stick" or not and the statistics say that it probably wont. Which is different from @VanishingVision 's experience but they don't negate each other.

And the problem with "social transition" and "affirmation" for children is that evidence shows that it may convince some children they can become or should become the other sex, when left to themselves they would simply outgrow it.

I've actuslly never said 'i feel like a woman' to anyone, I've always been very clear transitioning because of my sex characteristics makes me a transsexual and not the same as a woman. It's of course, down to anyone else what their perception of me is.

If tw/transsexuals didnt want to be seen as women, there wouldnt be a GRA, no one would change their name and the demand would be to recognise transsexuals as a class within their sex not the opposite.

Changing id, name and having surgery and hormones, having trans awareness campaigns, isnt neutral. Its manipulating people perception of what sex they are and how we as a society should think a woman is.

Men using women as a description for themselves, then saying, but i never claimed to be a female woman, are still claiming that they are a woman. They are just saying that been female isnt that important.