Lloyds bank tripling down

[Twoshoesnewshoes]

Just in case we weren’t clear on their stance…

I have kept up with the evolution of the flag. What does the circle stand for?

I have a lloyds account. They'd like me to close it as I don't use it very much. I think keeping it is a good idea and then I can "I am a customer" when i complain.

Mind you, our area lost its last bank this week.

Whether or not many people actually do use the loos of the opposite sex, the point is that many big employers have indeed made a big fuss of their "inclusive" policies which allow staff to do so. I'm not happy with such a policy, even if nobody uses the option. I find it offensive, and it's also unlawful.

Rather than respond to your "toilet police" question which has been amply covered in this thread, I'll ask you a question - if this is a non-issue and there is nobody out there "identifying" into different loos, then what is the problem with keeping loos single sex?

Oh god @JKRismyPatronus photos like that make me 😆
I know they're meant to be intimidating and I'm not playing down the mental state of the guys who post them, but whyyyy they are always taken sat on mummy's sofa in some mediocre beige sitting room with the net curtains closed

"...how do I know?"

As an employer you are required to make sure that any job applicants have the right to work in this country.

This will involve checking their passport or birth certificate.

So, you will have noted their sex in your records when you went through the process of checking their right to work.

The employer knows.

Now, it is true that a very small number of transwomen have altered the sex marker on their passport (the figures are 1,457 MtF from 2018-2022).

If one of those less than 1,500 transwomen were employed by you then there would be more to consider, but the vast majority of transwomen have not done this and will be recorded as male by the employer.

For those transwomen with a GRC, it does get more tricky as they will have a birth certificate in their new gender. However, I would suggest that it is quite plain, in most cases, when a transwoman is a transwoman and the SC ruling now means that they are men regardless of having a new birth certificate.
.

"I’m more likely to give the complainant a friendly warning about harassment"

You would be opening the company to a whole world of problems in that case.

As an 'employer' you have a responsibility to uphold the equality act. If you fail to do that, you can be taken to an employment tribunal. At which point you'll lose.

Most 'employers' are checking with their insurance companies and legal teams, in order to follow the Supreme Court ruling and avoid expensive litigation.

Best get started

We used to enforce this without anybody really having to think of it by having an absolutely clear rule that anything marked Women's or Ladies was only to be used by the female sex and anyone male attempting to in there was an obvious wrong 'un and would be challenged. Men and boys who felt the urge to break this taboo mostly held off from it for fear of being publicly shamed and possibly prosecuted. There was also probably a risk of assault from angry men. I don't condone violence, of course, but I also despair of all the men who've just decided to ignore this issue, because the safety and privacy of women and girls just doesn't matter to them as much as the small risk of being called out as transphobic.

Er, because as a Trans allied employer you would keep details of everyone's "sexual reassignment" and "gender identity" status.

You would ask all employers to enter personal details for equality reasons.

I filled in a government consultation document and it asked me my race, sexual orientation, age, sex, "does gender identity differ to birth assigned sex", etc.

So not sure why you as a trans allied employer wouldn't be doing what government agencies already do.

I've just been made redundant from
Lloyds after a long career.

Thank God.

Another consideration, in the rare case of the secret trans person that the employer doesn't know about, is... how does the colleague know? Is it something they've discovered due to an incident in the loos?

That makes a big difference to the kind of conversation the employer may or may not need to have.

"Er... Jane... You have quite a deep voice... Er.... Anything... we should know?"

is a very different (and unwise) potential conversation, compared to

"Jane, we've had a report of indecent exposure in the ladies' loo"

I'm sorry to hear about the redundancy, @InspectorGidget. Hope you got a good package.

Such an empty gesture to plaster the physical branches with flags, given that there are so few of them now.

I would be interested to know whether Lloyds does this in overseas branches in (say) Saudi Arabia.

Banks are the least progressive, most exploitative businesses there are bar the arms industry. If your bank is at Pride but invests in any country where homosexuality is criminalised, they are pinkwashing hypocrites.

Yes they're so very exclusively ‘inclusive’ aren’t they?

Great post.

The recently released information from the EHRC is very easy to understand for the hard of understanding employer.

You have eyes. People can determine sex by looking at someone's face reliably over 99% of the time.

The Supreme Court was clear that sex is biological. Your "friendly warning" would actually be unlawful victimisation of a person who has raised a good-faith concern about a breach of the Workplace (Health Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 section 20 (2c), indirect sex discrimination, and possible sexual harrassment.

I thought we were supposed to be boycotting Barclays because of them bankrolling genocide in Palestine these days?

Ooh, ooh please do your 'friendly' warning! Pretty please! We all watched avidly as NHS Fife make themselves look like utterly incompetent fools and that was before the SC judgement so an ET because of your 'friendly' warning sounds like it will be extremely entertaining.

Because photos like this machete-brandishing maniac totally make women feel safe around a male person in the loo. JFC, talk about an own goal.

Operation Let Them Speak continues to deliver absolute solid gold.

I guess you’d better be prepared to have that “friendly warning” read out in court 🤷‍♀️

The last person who said Soz to me was a 15 year old boy, over ten years ago. And when I gave him A Look, he realised that it was a very silly thing to say.

And you have had a number of correct and sensible answers to your disingenuous question.

How do you know it was a boy?? Did you ask him to undress??

It was in historical times (2013) before TransMadness took over.

Can you imagine my excitement when I received a solicitor's letter a few years ago saying I'd been left some Lloyds shares in a distant relative's Will? The dividends haven't yet amounted to enough to buy a stamp to write to Lloyds and cancel the fucking things 🙄

I realise belatedly also my inherent transphobia in assuming that a boy might be identifiable by what's under his clothes.

Hi Soz, I’m sorry you have developed an affliction that means you truly can’t tell what the sex of your fellow humans is.

Many animals are able to reliably tell the sex of humans - even when it is disguised, so I’m sure it doesn’t make you feel good to be thus afflicted.

As an employer this ‘sex blindness’ could lead you into sticky situations and maybe even to be on the losing side of an Employment Tribunal so I suggest you take steps to mitigate this. Maybe hire a specially trained dog to help you?