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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Facebook 'friend' educates me on feminism and transgender people- Round 2

90 replies

GreenFriedTomato · 03/05/2025 00:33

Background- I rarely use Facebook these days but I occasionally post the odd article. A year ago I posted an article about a trans identified male who was playing in a woman's football team. A woman I've met socially a few times but only superficially, responded to my post, called me a bigot ,how sad it was that I'd joined the far right, proceeded to lecture me for hours and sent numerous links to 'research'.
She disappeared and hasn't interacted with me since

Yesterday however a mutual FB friend posted somerhing complimentary about Trump and she included in her response 'transgender people aren't the huge problems they want you to believe'

I politely challenged her citing the erosion of women's rights and single sex spaces, and asked her why she seems to care more about trans issues than womens and here is her response.

Note that this was on someone else's wall, so it wasn't appropriate to continue but I couldn't let it stand. I replied to a couple of points (statistics of crimes commited by TIM and her conflation of transgenderism with DSD) and agreed to discuss further privately on messenger. On the condition she ditch the attitude.

She considers herself an intellectual and that she is far more knowledgeable than me because she has a degree in gender studies.

Here it is. Any thoughts? (Btw, I never turned against her. Our last message was let's take a break and discuss again another time and it was all very friendly- and then we never interacted again until this. And we were never good friends. Just acquaintances. We know nothing about each other)

Wow...You don't really think my feminism is a threat against the world, do you? Why don't you take a look at yourself and ask why we were once good friends and why you turned against me only because there were some opinions we didn't agree on? Are you jealous of me, or what is it? We are both blonde and attractive and know the same friends. You know that the town is big enough for both of us, don't you?

It seems that you have misunderstood what feminism is. It's a political movement which is often based on gender research, and strives for equal opportunities. Feminism in my country has given MEN the right to custody, child care and neutral custody proceedings. Did you believe that feminism was only to promote women? I understand an Egyptian man would believe so, because they have no exposure to the outside world and no quality education. But a European woman should know better.

Yes today's feminism is about the erosion of women's rights. Those are reproductive rights, right to the autonomy of your own body/abortion, the rights to education and rights to many of those things you mention.
All of these groups are under attack from the 1% and the right wing establishment. They have ALL been defunded and are under threat by the Trump administration and the far right both in your own country and in those of the EU. The right wingers use the very propaganda you parrot to convince people like yourself that something is under threat that really isn't (there's no transgender mafia that is taking over) and that you don't have to care about your own rights, such as free higher education (something's that the UK don't even have), free daycare for single parents (most often women who otherwise will loose their career because men don't take their parent responsibly) daddy's leave (again so that women don't just stay home and loose their career and so that men get the rights to their children and that young boys and girls grow up with less crimes as criminality in young men has a direct link to absent fathers).

This seems to be too complicated for the masses, perhaps even to you? But these research findings is just a simple Google click away for anyone who is genuinely interested and who doesn't just want to bicker with an old friend for unknown reasons.

But people with less power, marginalized and vulnerable are not only women. It's immigrants, disabled, mentally challenged, the HBTQL community etc etc. Transgender people are one of these vulnerable groups. Have you never heard about "rule and divide"? The right wingers use any meager understanding of history and feminism and politics in general, and heterosexual men's fear of locker rooms (where men are the most vulnerable in today's society) and the lack of women's understanding of where you got your rights politically and historically, so that you'll turn on someone more vulnerable than yourself, and so that you'll vote against your own interests and rights.

There is absolutely 0% research that supports that there's been assaults by transgender people in shared bathrooms, there is ZERO research supporting that there's men "who pretend to be women" (transgender is a very specific biological condition which is both physical and mental and is sometimes recorded at birth because of underdeveloped genitals), and there's absolutely no research found on rape cases from transgenders that is higher than rape in any other group. Again, it's a just a Google search away. Obscure YouTube alternative clips don't count, but actual peer-reviewed research. It's not hard to find.

Please write a private message on messenger and try to be direct with me. Why are you so upset with me? There must be an issue you have with me that explains why you jump at me for no reason whatsoever other than me not agreeing with your conspiracy theories.

OP posts:
Shortshriftandlethal · 03/05/2025 14:47

GreenFriedTomato · 03/05/2025 01:17

Ok well thanks everyone. It's going to be a short thread then
I guess I just wanted some reassurance that it's not me, it's her.

I'm constantly surprised by those who write absolute nonsense with such confidence.

That's how most people get a first in their degree these days.

GreenFriedTomato · 03/05/2025 14:51

If it helps, here's my comment that she responded to

but it's not about 'the few transgender people who weren't the huge problems to our civilisation' as you put it. It's about the erosion of Women's Rights. Biological men in women's sport, women's prisons, women's rape centres, women's single sex spaces.
90+% of trans identified males don't have any surgery, they keep their male parts intact.
It's not about Trans it's about Men. I'm still surprised that you as a feminist, centre men's rights over women's. You stand against the patriarchy and are very vocal about women's rights in Egypt, yet seem to defend the TRA which is a radical men's rights movement and is erasing women's rights in other countries

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CassOle · 03/05/2025 14:56

I strongly and kindly suggest that you don't worry about it and forget it all. Just be polite, if you want to send one further message, and bow out of the conversation gracefully.

As has been mentioned many times on here: you cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

GreenFriedTomato · 03/05/2025 15:00

Sure, I'm all done now. She hasn't responded anyway so thankfully there's no need to discuss any further.

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Lolapusht · 03/05/2025 15:02

something's that the UK”

That ⬆️ alone is enough to not bother with her, nevermind her numerous incorrect useages of “there’s” <shudder>

GreenFriedTomato · 03/05/2025 15:04

English isn't her first language so that really isn't an issue.

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GreenFriedTomato · 03/05/2025 15:09

Thanks 👍 I always love an opportunity to watch Magdalen

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socialdilemmawhattodo · 03/05/2025 15:10

CassOle · 03/05/2025 00:51

As soon as I read gender studies, I thought that this is not going to be logical and based in reality.

I would reply "I apologise for wasting your time. Goodbye." Then I would try to forget that this person exists.

Yes I am just looking at that dreadful letter on twitter, driven by people who seem to have been involved in gender studies, globally. I'm going to do a bit more digging on the signatories. 2000 apparently, although I have already spotted duplicates.

GreenFriedTomato · 03/05/2025 15:21

@socialdilemmawhattodo which letter is that?

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LyricalSixties · 03/05/2025 15:29

Block and move on. Sometimes it's best just to shrug your shoulders and admit there are weird people in this world.

socialdilemmawhattodo · 03/05/2025 15:30

GreenFriedTomato · 03/05/2025 15:21

@socialdilemmawhattodo which letter is that?

Sorry i'm on the phone and not very competent at linking. I had looked at the Sex Matters letter on twitter and then been scrolling around. Came across this letter from feminists opposing the SC decision, many of whom seem to be involved with gender studies. If the link doesn't work let me know and I'll try and post later from the computer.

docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1UZmaZ4QCXU-b-NcBManyo9-AIZtQlxLDWpTP09goaiY/mobilebasic

GreenFriedTomato · 03/05/2025 15:52

That works fine. Thanks

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ConstructionTime · 03/05/2025 19:54

"This seems to be too complicated for the masses, perhaps even to you? But these research findings is just a simple Google click away"

The condescension from that sentence alone shows that arguing is not worth the time. Perhaps a few brief sentences if you wish, focussing on one topic, but I doubt it'll help.

The information that she is Swedish could be relevant in that equality between the sexes with regard to work is supported by many practical things, such as better access to early years childcare / kindergarden, which in turn makes it easier to return to work fulltime for mothers, if they wish. I read that people rarely have to do overtime, which helps having enough time for your family, both for fathers and mothers.
Thus people living in Sweden might feel that there is not so much left to fight for compared to women in other countries, so it's easier to be gracious about "including TW". However, it's only a guess.

ConstructionTime · 03/05/2025 20:03

"But people with less power, marginalized and vulnerable are not only women."

A good example of mixing feminism with other causes; the sentence is correct, of course, but uses the argument that if people don't fight for TW (as they classify them as women), then the domino effect of the erosion of the other rights will happen, too.

That's like hiding the trans cause under the other causes, and hoping people don't notice.

Of course I am worried about the erosion of rights of marginalized people, but the point is that TW are often not marginalized but claim the protections which were explicitly granted to women.

It's a strategy to stack the problems this way, and we have to be careful to insist on a separation of these topics.

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