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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Facebook 'friend' educates me on feminism and transgender people- Round 2

90 replies

GreenFriedTomato · 03/05/2025 00:33

Background- I rarely use Facebook these days but I occasionally post the odd article. A year ago I posted an article about a trans identified male who was playing in a woman's football team. A woman I've met socially a few times but only superficially, responded to my post, called me a bigot ,how sad it was that I'd joined the far right, proceeded to lecture me for hours and sent numerous links to 'research'.
She disappeared and hasn't interacted with me since

Yesterday however a mutual FB friend posted somerhing complimentary about Trump and she included in her response 'transgender people aren't the huge problems they want you to believe'

I politely challenged her citing the erosion of women's rights and single sex spaces, and asked her why she seems to care more about trans issues than womens and here is her response.

Note that this was on someone else's wall, so it wasn't appropriate to continue but I couldn't let it stand. I replied to a couple of points (statistics of crimes commited by TIM and her conflation of transgenderism with DSD) and agreed to discuss further privately on messenger. On the condition she ditch the attitude.

She considers herself an intellectual and that she is far more knowledgeable than me because she has a degree in gender studies.

Here it is. Any thoughts? (Btw, I never turned against her. Our last message was let's take a break and discuss again another time and it was all very friendly- and then we never interacted again until this. And we were never good friends. Just acquaintances. We know nothing about each other)

Wow...You don't really think my feminism is a threat against the world, do you? Why don't you take a look at yourself and ask why we were once good friends and why you turned against me only because there were some opinions we didn't agree on? Are you jealous of me, or what is it? We are both blonde and attractive and know the same friends. You know that the town is big enough for both of us, don't you?

It seems that you have misunderstood what feminism is. It's a political movement which is often based on gender research, and strives for equal opportunities. Feminism in my country has given MEN the right to custody, child care and neutral custody proceedings. Did you believe that feminism was only to promote women? I understand an Egyptian man would believe so, because they have no exposure to the outside world and no quality education. But a European woman should know better.

Yes today's feminism is about the erosion of women's rights. Those are reproductive rights, right to the autonomy of your own body/abortion, the rights to education and rights to many of those things you mention.
All of these groups are under attack from the 1% and the right wing establishment. They have ALL been defunded and are under threat by the Trump administration and the far right both in your own country and in those of the EU. The right wingers use the very propaganda you parrot to convince people like yourself that something is under threat that really isn't (there's no transgender mafia that is taking over) and that you don't have to care about your own rights, such as free higher education (something's that the UK don't even have), free daycare for single parents (most often women who otherwise will loose their career because men don't take their parent responsibly) daddy's leave (again so that women don't just stay home and loose their career and so that men get the rights to their children and that young boys and girls grow up with less crimes as criminality in young men has a direct link to absent fathers).

This seems to be too complicated for the masses, perhaps even to you? But these research findings is just a simple Google click away for anyone who is genuinely interested and who doesn't just want to bicker with an old friend for unknown reasons.

But people with less power, marginalized and vulnerable are not only women. It's immigrants, disabled, mentally challenged, the HBTQL community etc etc. Transgender people are one of these vulnerable groups. Have you never heard about "rule and divide"? The right wingers use any meager understanding of history and feminism and politics in general, and heterosexual men's fear of locker rooms (where men are the most vulnerable in today's society) and the lack of women's understanding of where you got your rights politically and historically, so that you'll turn on someone more vulnerable than yourself, and so that you'll vote against your own interests and rights.

There is absolutely 0% research that supports that there's been assaults by transgender people in shared bathrooms, there is ZERO research supporting that there's men "who pretend to be women" (transgender is a very specific biological condition which is both physical and mental and is sometimes recorded at birth because of underdeveloped genitals), and there's absolutely no research found on rape cases from transgenders that is higher than rape in any other group. Again, it's a just a Google search away. Obscure YouTube alternative clips don't count, but actual peer-reviewed research. It's not hard to find.

Please write a private message on messenger and try to be direct with me. Why are you so upset with me? There must be an issue you have with me that explains why you jump at me for no reason whatsoever other than me not agreeing with your conspiracy theories.

OP posts:
MarieDeGournay · 03/05/2025 10:29
continuous path GIF by Dan Harnden

What a strange person, with such odd opinions, and so many of them...

Here are some hills, GreenFriedTomato - my advice is to run for them!Grin

GreenFriedTomato · 03/05/2025 10:30

ThisHangrySheep · 03/05/2025 10:01

You know that the town is big enough for both of us, don't you?

Who does she think she is, Clit Eastwood?

Given that we live in different countries, I'm assuming this was metaphorical. Or something. It looks like she's vanished again anyway. But if she does send me links to her research, I'll share them with you all. They made curious reading the last time if iirc.

OP posts:
lcakethereforeIam · 03/05/2025 10:32

Ignore everything else and just message back 'You think i'm attractive?Blush'.

DuesToTheDirt · 03/05/2025 10:35

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 03/05/2025 10:04

I would reply, "I don't think your feminism is feminism, to be honest. If you think that the rights of male "women" should trump the rights of female women, which is what you are saying every time you support male athletes competing in women's sports or male offenders being housed in women's prisons, or even, let's face it, male people using women's toilets, you are explicitly prioritising male people over female people. You aren't a feminist, you are just identifying as one, which we all know is not the same thing."

I'd just keep it short, actually, combining this and @WithSilverBells's suggestion, but without the "chat later" part as I'd be done with this person.

"You lost me at "both blonde and attractive".
It is you who have misunderstood feminism, if you think that the rights of male "women" should trump the rights of actual women.
You need to retake Feminism 101."

Instructions · 03/05/2025 10:36

It's so tiresome to have to respond to those pseudo intellectual tantrums that honestly I think I'd just say "oh dear, if you actually believe that bilge I feel sorry for you" or something along those lines and then just end my contact with her

Life is too short to waste time on someone who behaves like that much of an idiot

Mochudubh · 03/05/2025 10:43

mumda · 03/05/2025 09:41

You can't argue with stupid.

Although I prefer the "Don't wrestle with pigs, they enjoy it and you get muddy"

I can't remember who said it but I like

"Never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".

Heylittlesongbird · 03/05/2025 11:07

I’d be tempted to write something like: I think you’re mixing me up with someone else because we’ve only ever been distant acquaintances, not good friends. Also I’m not blonde, but I’ll take the attractive 😉

MarieDeGournay · 03/05/2025 11:16

lcakethereforeIam · 03/05/2025 10:32

Ignore everything else and just message back 'You think i'm attractive?Blush'.

This, and 'Clit Eastwood', are genius😂
You are witty women, Cake and Hangry👏

AnSolas · 03/05/2025 11:47

chivalry originated from France on how to manage war and general social violence

Rank of protection due to lack of ability to fight back:
Children
Women
Men

So in UK ladies first chivalry and the concept of being the least threats to social order:

LG rights [ F&M ]
LGB .... [ F&M + F/M ]
LGBTQ... [ F&M + F/M + f/M + ? ]

Her country

HL rights [ F&M ]
HBTQL.... [ F&M + F/M + f/M + ? + F ]

So Womens Rights/Protections as a concept keeps getting pushed out

teawamutu · 03/05/2025 11:56

GreenFriedTomato · 03/05/2025 00:33

Background- I rarely use Facebook these days but I occasionally post the odd article. A year ago I posted an article about a trans identified male who was playing in a woman's football team. A woman I've met socially a few times but only superficially, responded to my post, called me a bigot ,how sad it was that I'd joined the far right, proceeded to lecture me for hours and sent numerous links to 'research'.
She disappeared and hasn't interacted with me since

Yesterday however a mutual FB friend posted somerhing complimentary about Trump and she included in her response 'transgender people aren't the huge problems they want you to believe'

I politely challenged her citing the erosion of women's rights and single sex spaces, and asked her why she seems to care more about trans issues than womens and here is her response.

Note that this was on someone else's wall, so it wasn't appropriate to continue but I couldn't let it stand. I replied to a couple of points (statistics of crimes commited by TIM and her conflation of transgenderism with DSD) and agreed to discuss further privately on messenger. On the condition she ditch the attitude.

She considers herself an intellectual and that she is far more knowledgeable than me because she has a degree in gender studies.

Here it is. Any thoughts? (Btw, I never turned against her. Our last message was let's take a break and discuss again another time and it was all very friendly- and then we never interacted again until this. And we were never good friends. Just acquaintances. We know nothing about each other)

Wow...You don't really think my feminism is a threat against the world, do you? Why don't you take a look at yourself and ask why we were once good friends and why you turned against me only because there were some opinions we didn't agree on? Are you jealous of me, or what is it? We are both blonde and attractive and know the same friends. You know that the town is big enough for both of us, don't you?

It seems that you have misunderstood what feminism is. It's a political movement which is often based on gender research, and strives for equal opportunities. Feminism in my country has given MEN the right to custody, child care and neutral custody proceedings. Did you believe that feminism was only to promote women? I understand an Egyptian man would believe so, because they have no exposure to the outside world and no quality education. But a European woman should know better.

Yes today's feminism is about the erosion of women's rights. Those are reproductive rights, right to the autonomy of your own body/abortion, the rights to education and rights to many of those things you mention.
All of these groups are under attack from the 1% and the right wing establishment. They have ALL been defunded and are under threat by the Trump administration and the far right both in your own country and in those of the EU. The right wingers use the very propaganda you parrot to convince people like yourself that something is under threat that really isn't (there's no transgender mafia that is taking over) and that you don't have to care about your own rights, such as free higher education (something's that the UK don't even have), free daycare for single parents (most often women who otherwise will loose their career because men don't take their parent responsibly) daddy's leave (again so that women don't just stay home and loose their career and so that men get the rights to their children and that young boys and girls grow up with less crimes as criminality in young men has a direct link to absent fathers).

This seems to be too complicated for the masses, perhaps even to you? But these research findings is just a simple Google click away for anyone who is genuinely interested and who doesn't just want to bicker with an old friend for unknown reasons.

But people with less power, marginalized and vulnerable are not only women. It's immigrants, disabled, mentally challenged, the HBTQL community etc etc. Transgender people are one of these vulnerable groups. Have you never heard about "rule and divide"? The right wingers use any meager understanding of history and feminism and politics in general, and heterosexual men's fear of locker rooms (where men are the most vulnerable in today's society) and the lack of women's understanding of where you got your rights politically and historically, so that you'll turn on someone more vulnerable than yourself, and so that you'll vote against your own interests and rights.

There is absolutely 0% research that supports that there's been assaults by transgender people in shared bathrooms, there is ZERO research supporting that there's men "who pretend to be women" (transgender is a very specific biological condition which is both physical and mental and is sometimes recorded at birth because of underdeveloped genitals), and there's absolutely no research found on rape cases from transgenders that is higher than rape in any other group. Again, it's a just a Google search away. Obscure YouTube alternative clips don't count, but actual peer-reviewed research. It's not hard to find.

Please write a private message on messenger and try to be direct with me. Why are you so upset with me? There must be an issue you have with me that explains why you jump at me for no reason whatsoever other than me not agreeing with your conspiracy theories.

She sounds like a complete bellend. I don't think you can do a better job of showing her arguments up as total shite than she has herself, tbh.

GreenFriedTomato · 03/05/2025 12:10

AnSolas · 03/05/2025 11:47

chivalry originated from France on how to manage war and general social violence

Rank of protection due to lack of ability to fight back:
Children
Women
Men

So in UK ladies first chivalry and the concept of being the least threats to social order:

LG rights [ F&M ]
LGB .... [ F&M + F/M ]
LGBTQ... [ F&M + F/M + f/M + ? ]

Her country

HL rights [ F&M ]
HBTQL.... [ F&M + F/M + f/M + ? + F ]

So Womens Rights/Protections as a concept keeps getting pushed out

I think that's a typo because I looked it up and in Sweden it's HBTQI.
I wondered what on earth had happened to the L but it appears to be covered under the H for homosexuality.

OP posts:
FOJN · 03/05/2025 12:17

Now I know how Maggie Chapman spends her Friday evenings.

GeorgianaM · 03/05/2025 12:28

I encounter these Leftist nut jobs on Facebook every day! Vile people who thankfully are in the minority and usually have a huge meltdown when confronted with facts.

GCornotGCthatisthequestion · 03/05/2025 12:33

Honestly, this reads to me like you started an argument on Facebook with someone you know disagrees with you. What response did you expect?

Now you've taken the comment to a place where you know you won't get pushback so other posters can validate your viewpoint and ridicule your "friend" where she can't respond.

I don't think this is reflecting well on you op.

teawamutu · 03/05/2025 12:39

GCornotGCthatisthequestion · 03/05/2025 12:33

Honestly, this reads to me like you started an argument on Facebook with someone you know disagrees with you. What response did you expect?

Now you've taken the comment to a place where you know you won't get pushback so other posters can validate your viewpoint and ridicule your "friend" where she can't respond.

I don't think this is reflecting well on you op.

Read again. The bellend ex-friend responded to a third party's post, and op replied politely.

And regardless of who started it, she sounds like a dick.

GCornotGCthatisthequestion · 03/05/2025 12:41

teawamutu · 03/05/2025 12:39

Read again. The bellend ex-friend responded to a third party's post, and op replied politely.

And regardless of who started it, she sounds like a dick.

Even so though. If you call someone out publicly on Facebook then it's expected that they will respond defending their opinion.

teawamutu · 03/05/2025 13:08

GCornotGCthatisthequestion · 03/05/2025 12:41

Even so though. If you call someone out publicly on Facebook then it's expected that they will respond defending their opinion.

Indeed. But if one's polite and one's a patronising, self-regarding dick, I know who I think comes off worst.

DelphiniumBlue · 03/05/2025 13:44

I think I’ve read her post before. Some of the wording, especially the bit about both blonde and attractive sounds familiar. Some of it, at least , is deffo a cut and paste job.

SandAndSea · 03/05/2025 14:07

It's probably best to leave this one hanging and move on. But if you do want to reply, how about:

Ah, I see wisdom is chasing you, but you are faster.

teawamutu · 03/05/2025 14:16

SandAndSea · 03/05/2025 14:07

It's probably best to leave this one hanging and move on. But if you do want to reply, how about:

Ah, I see wisdom is chasing you, but you are faster.

Stealing this!

Faffertea · 03/05/2025 14:21
king john GIF

This

GreenFriedTomato · 03/05/2025 14:38

GCornotGCthatisthequestion · 03/05/2025 12:33

Honestly, this reads to me like you started an argument on Facebook with someone you know disagrees with you. What response did you expect?

Now you've taken the comment to a place where you know you won't get pushback so other posters can validate your viewpoint and ridicule your "friend" where she can't respond.

I don't think this is reflecting well on you op.

If you read my OP you would see that she started lecturing someone else. It wasn't the first time, she has piled on me and spouted nonsense. And she attempts to name call and ridicule me. I have never been anything other than reasonable and polite. And the intention was never to ridicule her even though many of her statements are in fact ridiculous. I simply wanted to share what some people confidently put out there as fact

OP posts:
Shortshriftandlethal · 03/05/2025 14:43

GreenFriedTomato · 03/05/2025 00:33

Background- I rarely use Facebook these days but I occasionally post the odd article. A year ago I posted an article about a trans identified male who was playing in a woman's football team. A woman I've met socially a few times but only superficially, responded to my post, called me a bigot ,how sad it was that I'd joined the far right, proceeded to lecture me for hours and sent numerous links to 'research'.
She disappeared and hasn't interacted with me since

Yesterday however a mutual FB friend posted somerhing complimentary about Trump and she included in her response 'transgender people aren't the huge problems they want you to believe'

I politely challenged her citing the erosion of women's rights and single sex spaces, and asked her why she seems to care more about trans issues than womens and here is her response.

Note that this was on someone else's wall, so it wasn't appropriate to continue but I couldn't let it stand. I replied to a couple of points (statistics of crimes commited by TIM and her conflation of transgenderism with DSD) and agreed to discuss further privately on messenger. On the condition she ditch the attitude.

She considers herself an intellectual and that she is far more knowledgeable than me because she has a degree in gender studies.

Here it is. Any thoughts? (Btw, I never turned against her. Our last message was let's take a break and discuss again another time and it was all very friendly- and then we never interacted again until this. And we were never good friends. Just acquaintances. We know nothing about each other)

Wow...You don't really think my feminism is a threat against the world, do you? Why don't you take a look at yourself and ask why we were once good friends and why you turned against me only because there were some opinions we didn't agree on? Are you jealous of me, or what is it? We are both blonde and attractive and know the same friends. You know that the town is big enough for both of us, don't you?

It seems that you have misunderstood what feminism is. It's a political movement which is often based on gender research, and strives for equal opportunities. Feminism in my country has given MEN the right to custody, child care and neutral custody proceedings. Did you believe that feminism was only to promote women? I understand an Egyptian man would believe so, because they have no exposure to the outside world and no quality education. But a European woman should know better.

Yes today's feminism is about the erosion of women's rights. Those are reproductive rights, right to the autonomy of your own body/abortion, the rights to education and rights to many of those things you mention.
All of these groups are under attack from the 1% and the right wing establishment. They have ALL been defunded and are under threat by the Trump administration and the far right both in your own country and in those of the EU. The right wingers use the very propaganda you parrot to convince people like yourself that something is under threat that really isn't (there's no transgender mafia that is taking over) and that you don't have to care about your own rights, such as free higher education (something's that the UK don't even have), free daycare for single parents (most often women who otherwise will loose their career because men don't take their parent responsibly) daddy's leave (again so that women don't just stay home and loose their career and so that men get the rights to their children and that young boys and girls grow up with less crimes as criminality in young men has a direct link to absent fathers).

This seems to be too complicated for the masses, perhaps even to you? But these research findings is just a simple Google click away for anyone who is genuinely interested and who doesn't just want to bicker with an old friend for unknown reasons.

But people with less power, marginalized and vulnerable are not only women. It's immigrants, disabled, mentally challenged, the HBTQL community etc etc. Transgender people are one of these vulnerable groups. Have you never heard about "rule and divide"? The right wingers use any meager understanding of history and feminism and politics in general, and heterosexual men's fear of locker rooms (where men are the most vulnerable in today's society) and the lack of women's understanding of where you got your rights politically and historically, so that you'll turn on someone more vulnerable than yourself, and so that you'll vote against your own interests and rights.

There is absolutely 0% research that supports that there's been assaults by transgender people in shared bathrooms, there is ZERO research supporting that there's men "who pretend to be women" (transgender is a very specific biological condition which is both physical and mental and is sometimes recorded at birth because of underdeveloped genitals), and there's absolutely no research found on rape cases from transgenders that is higher than rape in any other group. Again, it's a just a Google search away. Obscure YouTube alternative clips don't count, but actual peer-reviewed research. It's not hard to find.

Please write a private message on messenger and try to be direct with me. Why are you so upset with me? There must be an issue you have with me that explains why you jump at me for no reason whatsoever other than me not agreeing with your conspiracy theories.

What a cow! Narcissistic, shallow, totally up herself and believeing she's on the right side of history. She's neither very bright nor original in her thinking, either.

There is no coming back from that. I'd let her have it with both barrels... but in a short and very succinct way.

Shortshriftandlethal · 03/05/2025 14:45

GreenFriedTomato · 03/05/2025 00:43

Yeah, I'm actually mousey brown but that was the first weird comment. Then something in the middle about heterosexual men being the most vulnerable group in mens locker rooms. I am actually curious where she's got her ideas from because the stats are there to see-with a simple 'Google click'

Perhaps she found them down the back of the sofa.

GreenFriedTomato · 03/05/2025 14:46

GCornotGCthatisthequestion · 03/05/2025 12:41

Even so though. If you call someone out publicly on Facebook then it's expected that they will respond defending their opinion.

And that's fine. She has every right to defend her opinion. But it wasn't just opinion. I had every right to respond to outrageous claims that trans are the most marginalised and vulnerable and there are no records of assaults and rapes etc. and waffling on about intersex, particularly when she's declaring these things to an audience who knows very little about the subject and would benefit from actual facts.

OP posts: