Banned from breastfeeding group for objecting to males breastfeeding

[snickerdoodle1990]

Hi everyone,

I gave birth a few months ago and had some breastfeeding difficulties, so joined a local breastfeeding support group in my city. It’s basically a place to go for support with feeding, plus meet other mums/have a cuppa and biscuit etc. They also have a FB group. It’s become a nice, friendly place to go once every couple of weeks.

Recently, a trans-woman (male) has joined the group asking for support because their wife has not long had a baby and the trans-woman is wishing to breastfeed too, apparently through use of hormones and domperidone (?) to stimulate supply (I did not realise this was possible at all)

I really really object to this person being present in a group of women who are seeking breastfeeding support, trying to come together in their breastfeeding experience and also revealing themselves intimately

I told the group leader my concerns and she basically told me to shove it - said that the group is a safe space for everyone and they support all who wish to breastfeed and that I shouldn’t come back because I am a bigot

I am horrified as are the other women, where do we all stand and what would you do?

It really wouldn't bother me.

Visiting hours are 24/7 for partners at my hospital.

I know for a fact that drugs do carry through to milk and into the baby. I had iron tablets due to extreme blood loss after giving birth and it seriously impacted my child with loose greenish stools until I figured out the tablets were causing the issue.

I also had antibiotics due to infections and every time the doctors told me to stop breastfeeding (pump and throw away) to avoid passing the drugs to the baby through my milk.

I shudder to think what these drugs will do to the child. And will it make it worse if the baby is a little boy?

I'm so glad I missed all that! It was almost impossible to sleep on the ward anyway. I was delighted to get home. (Kept in for five days after c-section the first time. Fortunately only a couple of nights the second time, and it would have been less than that if baby hadn't been slightly jaundiced.)

But men who identify as men often attend with their female born and identifying partners.

This is a genuine question, and for context I breastfed both my children for 15 months each. I was fortunate that it was established quite easily. If it hadn't, I would have used formula milk. My mother didn't breastfeed me or my brother and we've turned out fine. Why would it be better to breastfeed a child if it can only be done by taking a drug which might pass through to the baby in the milk? I do worry that some women go through absolute purgatory to breastfeed when formula is actually a pretty good alternative.

Not the group that I went to and the OP makes no mention of other men attending.

Which I imagine means that some other mothers self-exclude. Why are the men attending? Why do their partners want them there, knowing that some other mothers will as a result not get the support they need?

I don't say this lightly as my DD was hospitalised due to reflux, but I'm glad I switched to formula feeding.

So we have a set up where several new mothers who do need support either don't get it or get it in conditions that make them very uncomfortable, but that's OK because one male who can never breastfeed in the way a mother can is getting his ego stroked by being included and having earnest discussions about his efforts to feed his baby and his drug regime?

Can you make a new group? Women's rights are being so eroded. It is not on.

Oddly in some rare cases some men can actually lactate without any medical intervention. I'm not talking about men who think they're women and going on medication to transmute themselves, I'm talking about people who are the father, consider themselves male completely, yet when a baby is born they can still lactate.

also revealing themselves intimately

I get that this situation is INSANE, but do you just mean getting your boobs out? Because don’t you do that wherever you breastfeed in public?

At our local breastfeeding support group (midwife led), Dads were welcome because they sometimes need to learn to support the breastfeeding mother, especially at the beginning.

So I see why you objected to the craziness of the situation but I think you were being a bit precious about the Dads in the group issue.

There's zero evidence that trans identified men can breastfeed a baby and a shed load of evidence about lactation fetish being a thing for some men.

Funny how the needs and safety of the baby don't feature in the numerous tedious posts from those supporting a man imposing himself on a women's breastfeeding group.

Having a male in a breastfeeding group could be discriminatory. But not in the way you're trying to claim. Why do you think women don't deserve to receive support for a biological function we perform?

It's not precious to want a single sex space to discuss, and receive support for, a function of the female body. Please don't diminish women in this way.

Does no one else bring their partners?

When I went to these groups there were a lot of men there.

I personally completely disagree with men being allowed at these sessions for the same reasons as you.

Perhaps they could put on a couple extra sessions for the men or even female partners to me included but like you say these should be safe spaces for the pregnant/BF women to open up.

I also disagree with men being allowed to stay overnight on maternity wings.

However, is this group just for mothers or can people bring their partners?

It actually sounds like this is a group where partners (and therefore men) are allowed which means you have no right to not want this one man there for the reason you state, if other men are there too.

If it is a group where no partners/men are allowed then I would absolutely complain about this person having different rules.

But you cannot complain about a male being there if it’s not a female only space.

I actually think if you’re honest with yourself it’s probably more to do with them being trans and a biological man wanting to BF (which I understand).

It’s a difficult one because you are wanting to exclude this one man, even though it seems men are welcome to attend the group as well.

I would not be ok with it but then I’d also not be ok with the others bringing their male partners either.

At the end of the day, they are trying to make sure their baby gets the food and nutrients it needs like the rest of you.

I personally don’t think a man needs to BF but your argument is that you want a female only space to talk about intimate things, but it’s not a female only group because partners are allowed.

If it was a female only space and this person wanted to attend, then it would be an issue and a very challenging one to get around but it’s not a female only group.

Meet together with like minded women in the same boat for cup of tea meetings and to support each other with breast feeding in an informal way.
You need tp have a support network; breast feeding is natural but it doesn't always come naturally.

My experience of this was I had low supply and was just desperate to make it work. I kept being told that if I just pumped more, did more skin to skin, ate more etc I’d be able to feed. I had some milk coming out but just not enough and I really loved having that closeness with my baby, plus there’s all the hype about it being best for baby. It felt like I was close to making it work but it was just out of reach and I was very desperate so I googled everything and learned about domperidone, checked it was safe etc. I think it’s quite hard to give up on breastfeeding once you start. As it turned out the domperidone didn’t work and just gave me diarrhoea. Not being able to do something for your baby that you see other mothers doing is really heartbreaking.
I do think the benefits of breastfeeding are massively over inflated. Anecdotally I was the only one of my siblings not breastfed and I’m the only one who has a normal bmi, no allergies and went to uni. My siblings are all morbidly obese, have hayfever and struggled academically. Go figure! However, I still think of you can breastfeed it’s an amazing thing to do. I was far more sensible with my second DD and accepted my limitations. I still feel a little sad though every time I see a mum breastfeeding.

The fact that there is a safe and well tested and regulated alternative to breast milk (formula) that does not require large amounts of drugs to be taken and passed on to the baby demonstrates that this is all about affirming the trans parent and nothing about the wellbeing of the child. I find it repugnant and couldn't get past that in a breastfeeding space. In fact, I'd find that much more difficult to witness (cos playing his femaleness) than getting my boobs out in front of a man.

We should be lobbying Wes Streeting to commission proper studies into the impact of TIM "breastfeeding" and / or restrict the prescription of these drugs to TIMs.

I do wonder about our medical research community and how this got past the ethics tests. Just because you CAN doesn’t meet you SHOULD. If mice were involved it would have had to jump through so many hoops to get approval.

Also the irony of medics supplying this drugs experimentally when I recall being pregnant there was a lot of pills I could take because the research wasn’t there on the effects on pregnant women and their babies. The caution was understandable post thalidomide scandal. But when a transwoman asks, it is here have all the drugs and stuff the consequences to the baby who is also ingesting them. Where is the safeguarding?

OK, so that person wants to feed a newborn milk produced artificially with drugs. That is not on the benefit of the baby is it? That group is very damage with that approach.

Mothers don’t have penises. Mothers are female.

With every comment you make you reveal that you have no knowledge of breastfeeding services in the Uk or of breastfeeding. Your argument only works if you mangle language and in the UK we don’t have to do that any more.

Breastfeeding groups exist for support with technical aspects and the heavy physical burden of the work. The expertise is on female anatomy so a male will disrupt the group and take up disproportionate amounts of time and so women in the group will be neglected as a result. This could negatively impact on the other feeding dyads and ability of those women to feed if they don’t get the help they need.

I think it’s selfish for a male to attend a group knowing this. In the UK it’s possible to get individual house visits or one to one coaching - why hasn’t this man done that?

Why put their needs over that of the other women and their own baby?

I'm failing to see the problem, she's there with a baby and she's breast feeding. That's what breastfeeding groups should be for. Where the hell does she go for support, there's not going to be a hell alot of trans breastfeeding Mums around to form a group. Good for the group leader being inclusive I would happily've had her in my breastfeeding group.