Does anyone else feel disheartened?

[ItsCoolForCats]

I was so elated at the ruling and the implications for women's sex-based protections.

And I am happy that certain media outlets have realised (begrudgingly in some cases) that refusing to air the concerns of women over the last decade has lead to a very one-sided debate. It's great to see orgs such as Sex Matters being quoted so extensively now.

However, I'm really disheartened by the sheer scale of the push back and by the fact that so many women don't support the ruling. I mean, why would anyone think that women don't deserve fair and safe sporting opportunities, for example? Why is it always women that are expected to forgo their rights?

The Supreme Court ruling should be definitive, but it doesn't feel like the end. There is the judge bringing the case to the ECHR (I know some legal experts have dismissed any chances of success), but I think activists are going to pile a lot of pressure on the government to make concessions and look at amending the law. The disquiet about the ruling amongst so many Labour MPs about the ruling is concerning me.

Is anyone else feeling a bit dejected?

@MadBadDaddy My community choir is also mostly women.
I wouldn't have a problem with a transwoman joining because it isn't set up as a female only choir. As long as you sang in the section suitable for your voice of course, which in our choir would probably be 'middles' which contains both women and men.

I've never been able to sing but .... would a women's choir that included transwomen (illegally unless other men could also join) demand that a transwomen out himself by singing basso profundo?

I thought women's choirs sang music written or arranged for women's voices. And that was the point of them. If you want to sing alongside basso profundo voices you'd join a mixed choir.

(Edited for mis-sexing. Honestly, my poor brain!)

I agree, the majority of people is behind the ruling so it will be accepted.

We don't need or want to hear about your boners.

This is about the pushback you're getting, not us.

I don't think a single one of my (mostly female) friends is not a survivor of some form of serious sexual, familial and/or domestic abuse, including me. That's what you fail to understand about the Queer community. We've nearly all of us had to choose life at some point. We know all about safety, consent and boundaries, because we have to. And as such, we recognise these qualities in each other and draw together in the face of a hostile world. You're only fooling yourself if you write us off as lacking humanity or respect, or weak.

Transphobes exploit trauma, the LGBT community is a refuge from it. That's why you'll never be rid of us. We're people bonded by our shared humanity and grief, and you continually fail to recognise that, much less respect it. The pushback you are getting is from those that DO recognise our humanity. They do not recognise the crude caricatures and fearmongering stereotypes that you're so determined to sell us as.

It's when you say stuff like "trans contagion" that you sound less like you have simple concerns for women's safety, dignity and privacy, but more like a zealous moral crusade to eradicate all traces of trans from society, medicine and law. That's the point when bullying a vulnerable minority becomes obvious to the average neutral person, I'm guessing.

Well quite. Have a word with bluegoldflow in that case.

I don't know. The gender side seem to be be in a tailspin of fury and hysteria. There is such shock from them that their insistence on feels over facts and anyone disagreeing is a bigot deserving of punishment has been roundly disagreed with. There is such hypocrisy on their side too- apparently they are the peaceful and vulnerable ones just wanting to live their lives, but it's their protests that see people encouraging violence, toting signs about pissing on and burning terfs. I don't think they realised that the default position for humanity is that sex is real and there is a limit to how much people can be forced to pretend it isn't.

Anyone can sing. Singing is a natural animal trait. Only humans turn into some exclusive skill.

It's a mixed 4-part community choir, and I've been an Alto there since Lockdown. We've performed for up to 1500 people at times.

I think your poor brain would thank you if you stopped using it so much to create snarky cartoons of other people's lives. It must get grim after a bit.

Your "life as a woman" is a male fantasy.

No, it's the established treatment for Gender Dysphoria, and it's very effective. What men might fantasise about does not concern me. Your objectification of me as a sex object makes you no better than them.

The SC Ruling didn't mention "fantasy" but they did go out of their way to describe trans people as a recognised minority demographic and worthy of protection in UK society. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

'I don't think a single one of my (mostly female) friends is not a survivor of some form of serious sexual, familial and/or domestic abuse'. You are so close to getting our point. Because I can guarantee that nearly every single one of their - and your - abusers is male. Women do not want men in our spaces for safety, dignity and privacy and male threat to women remains the same even if they identify as women.

Ah so not a women’s choir. Gotcha. So they allow men in however they present. That’s awesome and so inclusive. Maybe they should give talks to men letting them know just because a man is wearing lipstick and a dress he shouldn’t be made uncomfortable in the men’s room. That’ll eradicate the fear TW have of using the men’s room and so they’ll be happy to use them. I mean… if it’s about fear that is.

Well as you’re a man…. What men fantasise about kind of includes what you fantasise about doesn’t it?

It's a choir. We sing, we don't give talks. This is the point where the world stops taking you seriously. Nobody normal talks or thinks like that. It's just weird and you seem unable to stop. And here you are scratching your heads about "pushback".

And here you are objectifying and sexualising my entire life and stripping all humanity from it, like any man.

Is this "protecting women's safety dignity and privacy" or is it just abusive?

You're a man, posting on a feminist forum, who claims to be "living as a woman". Who are you trying to convince?

"Gender reassignment" being a protected characteristic in the EA2010, as confirmed by the SC, doesn't mean that anyone has to pretend you're a woman.

There’s a reason toilets, changing rooms etc were set up as single sex. Can you think what that is? Is it because every male is abusive? Of course not, but some are, and nobody knows which ones. Transwomen sexually offend at as least the same rate as men sexually offend. For that reason alone, it is justified to exclude all men (including transwomen) from single-sex spaces.

Like most people, you just want to get on and live your life, be part of your community. I’m sure you, like most people, bring love and joy to those around you. This isn’t about trying to stop you living your life. It’s about making sure women have the infrastructure they need to live theirs.

If the trans response to this was logical, it would be focussed on what could be put in place so that trans people can have what they need without compromising the things that other people need. Why do you think ‘pushback’ on women’s rights is a better approach?

The pushback you are experiencing is on transphobia, not anyone's rights. Your agenda is absolutely about stopping me living my life, and has been since Janice Reymond all the way through the WDI declaration on "womens sex based rights"

You are trying to "morally mandate us out of existence" and it shows whether you want it to or not. That's what Jo Public is judging you on.

Our agenda is about enabling women and girls to live their lives, and Jo Public seems not just keen, but increasingly so.

I do love it when men try to lecture women on how they should act, and that them saying no hurts their feelings and makes them sad. Maybe I’m not womanning right but I can’t seem to bring myself to care. the fact some men have for years bullied and threatened women into giving up their rights and spaces and are now being told no is not my concern. I couldn’t care less what ameffect women having sex based rights has on any man. I do care that it has made women’s lives better.

The SC judgment and the pushback have nothing to do with transphobia. The former was simply clarifying the meaning of words in the Equality Act, and the latter appears to all intents and purposes to be based on a sense of male entitlement.
If women are to be protected, they have to be protected based on their sex, which has a clear meaning. If gay people are to be protectsed they have to be protected on the basis of same-sex attraction. If protection on the basis of gender reassignment is to work, it has to be based on there being two sexes because otherwise there cannot be a basis of transitioning from one to the other.
None of that has anything at all to do with 'transphobia'. It's simply about the need for clear language and workable statutes to protect a variety of people.

Then why are you getting pushback?

Because abusive men don’t like it when they’re told no.

It's just this kind of gaslighting that the public are seeing through now. The "there is no transphobia" ship has long sailed. The intentional cruelty enabled by Trump and now the UK is undeniable, and ongoing. Trump even boasted about how he uses us before elections to whip up his base. And Rowling doesn't even bother to pretend not to hate us anymore. The toothpaste is out of the tube, and the British public dislike bullies.

I assume it's similar to the fact that the most dangerous time in a woman's life is when she leaves her abuser.