Does anyone else feel disheartened?

[ItsCoolForCats]

I was so elated at the ruling and the implications for women's sex-based protections.

And I am happy that certain media outlets have realised (begrudgingly in some cases) that refusing to air the concerns of women over the last decade has lead to a very one-sided debate. It's great to see orgs such as Sex Matters being quoted so extensively now.

However, I'm really disheartened by the sheer scale of the push back and by the fact that so many women don't support the ruling. I mean, why would anyone think that women don't deserve fair and safe sporting opportunities, for example? Why is it always women that are expected to forgo their rights?

The Supreme Court ruling should be definitive, but it doesn't feel like the end. There is the judge bringing the case to the ECHR (I know some legal experts have dismissed any chances of success), but I think activists are going to pile a lot of pressure on the government to make concessions and look at amending the law. The disquiet about the ruling amongst so many Labour MPs about the ruling is concerning me.

Is anyone else feeling a bit dejected?

The "pushback" is all noise and no substance. The Scottish Government accepted the ruling, the UK government accepted the ruling. The Attorney General is pro-sex based rights and is making sure that the ruling is complied with top down. The EHRC are doing the same.

The FA, the SFA, Cricket, Netball, Pool and other sports associations are reverting to female-only rules. The British Transport Police has done the same. Slowly most organisations that are accountable to government and have insurance policies that require compliance will make the change. Some will resist because they will argue they don't have to provide a 'single sex' only service (Ladies Pond for example). These will probably need test cases.

All of the businesses I have seen sending 'supportive messages' to their 'trans, intersex, non-binary colleagues' (I swear they get AI to write these) are completely lacking in any action or substance. They are generic, non committal messages along the lines of 'always support trans people' and 'stand by them' - they know they cannot say they will break the law.

As for the BMA - it's a trade union - it is not the NHS and it is not a Royal College. It's just there to collectively bargain wages and working conditions.

The ones opposing it are making the loudest noise: TRAs peeing in public in Parliament Square, mid-ranking celebrities (face it, when Eddie Redmayne - someone who can barely open a film on his own - is the biggest name you can muster, it's not 'A-list'); a tax lawyer with a grift, a clear mental health crisis and a track record of failure and some Guardian journalists.

If celebrities are comparing their Trans Rights stance to the MeToo / TimesUp moment then we can all sleep easy at night, as that movement was a failure which changed nothing and achieved nothing. It did sell a few badges and get a few lower level actors noticed though - so there's that.

The interesting thing about the celebrity letter was how it called on a lot of publicly funded or owned bodies like the BFI, BBC, Channel 4, Arts Council to support trans rights. These organisations will be in a quandary - when government funds are being cut left, right and centre, especially for anything discretionary - do they really want to start a fight with the people that pay them? I have worked in both fund-raising and the independent film sector and complying with Equality Act is a central plank of securing grants. Lisa Nandy has already said she's not ruling out ending the licence fee. And Kneecap will be helpfully raising wider awareness of the risks arts funding bodies take when they make grants. The independent film and TV sectors in the UK cannot exist without government subsidy and visibly complying with EA2010 is a condition of that subsidy.

I think there are still risks and concerns - especially at lower level and in the NHS but the pushback at the moment is all noise.

Maggie Chapman was a little gift too, with her attack on the Supreme Court. She's offended people who aren't GC but do respect the courts and the law. Chatting to one of them who compared her to Trump!

I had a very similar union experience recently @teawamutu. I'm going to attend a meeting where there will be a vote on the issue. I'm terrified, but I'm going.

Yes. It was easy for me to remind leftist Remainers how appalled they were about that "enemies of the people" Daily Mail headline and ask whether it was acceptable for an elected MSP to attack the judiciary in the same way.

No. It's to be expected that people who thought they were right, unstoppable and backed by key figures and institutions won't simply say 'Oh, OK then'. But people saying media / social media representation of support masks the broad views of the majority are right. If you're in certain online loops you'll have a sense of a mighty battle to be fought but if you live mostly in the material social world you'll know there's no mass of support for TQI+++ and a lot of fed-upness and relief this stuff is being sorted out.

Scottish Indy supporter friends of mine (academics) have never accepted that the peak moment of support was the 2014 referendum. They were disbelieving of that result, predicting a great fight-back, King Over the Water etc and refused to admit any failings in the movement or the SNP rainbow dream, posting constant support and frank misinformation about the dreadful colonial / bigoted / 'right wing' Westmonster plots on their SM feeds for ages after. Needless to say the independence or otherwise of bella caledonia won't have any hard consequences for them, their wealth or careers and they've quietly stopped posting.

There's still nutters like Nadia Whittome in the Labour Party, though, and she never gets slapped down by Starmer, unlike Rosie Duffield. I don't really understand why.

I'm a 'leftist Remainer', but I don't like the, er, remaining part of Remain so much, so I was a bit surprised to get a 'like' from them on their FB page. I wondered if they parsed my post correctly? They were talking about:

When educated people say they’re casting a protest vote for the far right, it’s not just making a point — it’s risking the kind of society we all depend on. Protest is powerful, but it should build a better future, not tear it down

and my response was

A lot of very intelligent (and influential) people have seemingly bought into a toxic and misogynistic cult which is spreading world-wide, so it seems being so-called smart doesn't mean you can't be taken in, history abounds in examples, from the South Sea Bubble to the PIE scandal. A recent much-publicised interview with Carla Denyer is a perfect example.

My disappointment is that all the coverage has centred the ‘pain’ of trans people who’ve lost nothing that wasn’t theirs to begin with, and virtually no sympathy for girls and women who have had genuine and real fears for their safety, dignity, reputations and livelihoods.

I can only assume that there is a younger generation who have been brought up on #bekind bollocks and take freedoms for granted so much so that they are not even cognisant of what an existential fight this has been.

Blimey! That does surprise me. The only witches I’ve met worshipped a god and goddess, with women having the same status as men.

That was long before the trans stuff started. But with their belief in natural forces, I can’t see them wanting trans-identifying people messing up the female or male energy.

But on the other hand, maybe a belief in magicky things could easily embrace a belief in ‘wrong bodies’ and ‘men with ladybrains’ etc. I’d be rather sad, as the witch world seemed a friendly place for women.

I’m remembering too that the Red Tent movement, based on women sharing a safe and sociable space (originally while menstruating), started letting transwomen in. Which negated the whole idea really.

HRT is quite effective at ending "boners". Not as much as SRS though!

We remain integrated in our various communities whether they are gendered or not, LGBT or not. None of that has changed. My community choir (mostly women), for example, have been lovely and supportive and also decried the "toilet ban" as ridiculous and authoritarian.

That's why you're getting pushback. We don't have to "make up stories" about people liking us and accepting us.

Transgender men & women have careers, families and businesses. Those that know us, know that we are mostly ordinary people. They easily see through the grotesque fetish-objects you so eagerly paint us to be (either victim or predator, as purpose serves). We are never portrayed as our loved ones see us - happy, healthy members of society, contributing to their community. You won't even pretend to respect a community of people dealing with a lifelong medical condition and seeking the best care. Instead you turn us into the utter dregs of humanity, which is evidently ridiculous. Well, that's your loss. Many people gain a lot from knowing us.

It doesn't surprise me at all. Most of "wicca" and related types of neopaganism has a huge problem with men wanting to abuse the rituals to shag pretty young women. There's a lot of misogyny amongst male practitioners. The Dianic tradition is the only one free of this.

Interesting, I attended various occult and pagan talks and groups a few years ago when I was doing my masters in London and I happened to mention to the lovely man who ran an astrology bookshop in Bloomsbury that I was attending a talk on banishing rituals. He then warned me that that scene was full of predatory men and to be careful who I got mixed up with. In my case my interest in esoteric studies was purely academic and I had not interest in middle aged men who promised me they could coach me in high magick and several did try to pick me up with that kind of chat. I think two prominent male magicians openly discussed their enjoyment BDSM and Magick on a lecture I watched on Treadwell's recently.

Its a very sketchy scene, lots of male posers hyping themselves up as a way to attract easily manipulated young women.

"Why are we getting pushback?" you complain...so I've told you. You cope with that information by quickly rewriting my mundane little life as a woman into some elaborate toxic nightmare for me and everyone in it, requiring exhausting levels of sulking and coercion, etc. just to keep the clown car on the road. For several years now.

It's all so at odds with my observable reality. Again, this is why the pushback. You're describing a recognised community of people with such 1-dimensional, dehumanising rhetoric and smart people see through that, and currently there's a lot more of it about to see, as none of you can keep a lid on it.

Yes, disheartened. The WI, Girl Guides have shown no loyalty. Most people still dare not voice their true opinions- I am one of them. I work with a transwoman, have a family member who is trans, another colleague who is avidly encouraging her 11 year old son in his desire to identify as a girl, and we are all walking on eggshells re. these people (who are nothing worse than boring/self absorbed and determined to be heard-not in the least aggressive). It seems that their views can be spoken, but people disagreeing can't say a word.

Personal interactions don't change the view we have of the ideology. I would never challenge a trans woman in a woman's space. There was a trans woman using my David Lloyd changing room for a while. And while I could see their humanity and wish them no harm, I simply don't accept that they had a right to be there.

You spit on a lot of good women when you spit on my life. It never lands though.

enjoyment BDSM and Magick

Interesting that they mentioned BDSM because (a) you'd think that practitioners of a religion founded on a goddess and her consort would have a more egalitarian view of women, at least in public, and (b) ...

Its a very sketchy scene, lots of male posers hyping themselves up as a way to attract easily manipulated young women.

The kink scene also matches this description perfectly.

It doesn’t surprise me at all. IME, there’s a big cross over between the “Look at me, I’m a WITCH, LOOK I’M SO VERY DIFFERENT AND SPECIAL” crowd, and those of a blue-haired non-binary persuasion.

It all gets right on my Wicca - to me the very essence of paganism and witchcraft is its down-to-earthness, literally.

Granny Weatherwax wouldn’t have any truck with this nonsense.

Facebook's relentless promotion of 'pages you have no interest in' meant that a Channel 4 news post landed in my feed today, about the FA rule change. Like/love to grr/cry reactions were running at about 5 to 1. And a quick scan down the comments showed that any 'but the poor vulnerable TW just want to play' replies were being given a robust course in the biological reality of mixed contact sports, women's entitlement to fair sport at all levels, and a reminder that any TW wanting to play could do so in the men's teams or form their own.

This is something I wonder about. It seems that the view of the genpub is shifting, in terms of responses to suchlike posts; reaction from women and men seem to show strong support for the SC generally, keeping men out of women's sports, etc. but how much of that is just TRAs retreating into the woodwork a bit? After all, it's affirmation they want. And how much is algorithms? I dunno.

Females and rape survivors like me needing safe female only single sex bathrooms and spaces as you dehumanise it as 'toilet ban' and 'ridiculous' and 'authoritarian' is the most basic civil human right the female sex class has. You spitting on this is exactly why trans are getting pushback. Yet you still can't see it. Overreach and a lack of humanity and respect for females is and will be the undoing of the trans contagion.

You’re choirs probably being so lovely and supportive as it’s very hard to find a woman able to sing basso profundo so they turn a blind eye to the womanface and repeat the mantra so you don’t leave and they are without a bass