Allow Male Workers to perform mammograms and breast screening

[CrakdEgg]

OK, so the Society & College of Radiographers have their annual delegates conference, where members bring forward motions for the union to lobby on.
In the past they have passed motions to 'remove gendered language' from health communications for inclusivity - you know, 'pregnant people' and the like. They then lobby behind the scenes to the Government to follow these requests.

This year we have this motion -

Allow Male Workers to Perform Mammograms

Workforce shortages: there are 15 posts for mammographers on NHS jobs. In the UK.

But are we bothered? Do we not want males in this space, or does it not matter because we have male gynaecologists? Or will it dissuade women from attending?

I am interested to hear other people's opinions. My instincts say 'no way Jose', but I am interested in keeping males out of female spaces, so I accept my bias.

Thoughts?

But what would happen is that a clinic would run with say 4 staff, 3 female, 1 male. The female ones would be rushed off their feet with a queue heading out the door, and the male ones would have a handful. Not all the women would be seen.

Because while some women don’t mind having a man scan them, no one minds having a woman scan them, therefore it makes more sense to just employ women. For women-centred healthcare.

It would be such a backwards step.

I'm sure I read a few years ago they were looking at another way to do mammograms which involved the woman laying face down on a board with her breasts dangling into water and some form of radio waves would scan the breasts? Equally as undignified as what happens now? I'm old enough for mammograms but have opted out. Ditto smears and bowel screening

I worked with a final year radiography student yesterday who is struggling to find a job.

No, I don't want a male to do my mammogram. I don't care if I'm being precious.

You aren't being precious, you're choosing as is, and must remain, your right.

It seems lots of final year students in all medical fields are finding the same.

The shortage seems to be in the experienced staff, but getting the experience is hard.

Things I've had a 'kinder than the female hcp' male hcp's do to me over the years:

A deep breast biopsy without pain relief, which led to him losing his temper when I asked him to stop.

A colonoscopy without pain relief, which he told me wasn't painful and to calm down

Dismiss my suggestion that I might have endometriosis by laughing at me

Refuse to give me pain relief for endometriosis, insisting that ibuprofen was sufficient

Dismiss a massive internal bleed (after a lap for endo) as gas pain

Tell me (when I went to a&e in pain crisis) that he'd never heard of endometriosis or zoladex and that he suspected I was drug seeking.

Forget to fit a catheter which led to a kidney infection and a hospital stay.

Tell me I didn't know what I was talking about when I said I was miscarrying and perform an internal exam and then panic when this caused a massive bleed

So take your 'kinder than a female hcp' and shove it.

Well clearly someone else's husband having a completely different procedure by consenting to have a woman stick a finger up his bum, is obviously me giving my consent on my behalf for something else.

😂

I’m trying to get my head around the fact that some people think women’s request for a female radiographer is “precious” but a trans woman is justified in feeling distress at being strip searched by a man. How does that work?

Don't ask sensible questions.

I also thought that doctors were much more likely to do a PSA blood test as an initial screening than a digital rectal examination - and as has been said repeatedly, there is a difference between engaging with a patient being treated for cancer and encouraging symptom free people to participate in mass screening.

I'm in the very high breast cancer risk category so I have to have a lot of ultrasounds, mammograms, and breast MRIs. Of all of them, I find mammograms the most painful and undignified. On more than one occasion I've been in tears from the pain during mammograms. I find the whole thing emotionally very difficult because of my high risk.

Having a man perform the mammogram would make it much harder for me.

And no one else can consent for me.

Trying to imply in any way that what others do is relevant to your own consent is what is known as undue pressure and invalidates consent being freely given because it's a form of coercion.

I think it’s very much down to the individual. I have had smear tests done by men too and it didn’t bother me. However there may be instances where I do feel uncomfortable.

I can’t comment on mammograms as I have no experience however I do own a medical business where we have to check GMC information for doctors and there is a suprising amount of men who have things on their records where they have been found guilty of being sexually inappropriate to a woman and now have GMC conditions, but they are still allowed to work with women. This is what puts me off having men in these situations. It’s awful

You're NOT being precious. Nobody is. We have a right to privacy and dignity in healthcare. That's it. No fucking about.

I don't think its in any way our job to work out how it would work. Our right is to say "This is our absolute requirement for routine by appointment screening mammography. That women have an absolute right to choose ahead of attendance, or at attendance, provided they won't then lose their choice by default. (ie no turning up to find only male mammographers) This absolute right must be able to be exercised without detriment ie no longer waits, no need to justify our choice." I have found this in life that if your mind is made up about something, a grey rock approach works best. You set out your criteria very clearly and decline to argue or negotiate. The only question you ask is "does your proposal meet my requirements?"

So I would say “no, the proposal to allow men to train as Mammographers doesn’t meet the requirements of getting as many women screened as possible, go away and come back with a better plan that centres women”.

I think this idea of choice is a red herring that doesn’t benefit women. Have there been calls from women to have their mammograms done by men? I don’t think so.

I agree. I couldn't care less if a man did my mammogram.

This is what I’ve written to my MP:

Good morning

I know that you are a supporter of women's rights, and it was really good to meet you last year when Sex Matters lobbied Parliament on this subject. I know that you welcome the Supreme Court judgement that sex means biological sex in law.

There is another development recently that worries me. This is the motion passed by the Society of Radiographers to allow male practitioners to carry out mammograms.

The reasons given are staff shortages and lack of career opportunities for men. Staff shortages can surely be rectified by recruiting more women and offering female friendly working conditions, for example part time and flexible working to help with childcare. The "lack of career opportunities for men" seems ridiculous. Radiography is a broad occupation, and there must be plenty of other opportunities for men within the discipline.

I have had mammograms and found them intrusive and painful, more so than, for example, any gynaecological procedures. I know that many women feel the same (though I appreciate that others don't). I am certain that having uncertainty of the sex of the mammographer would put some women off attending screening - not to mention those who, for religious or cultural reasons, would not be allowed to be seen in a state of undress, let alone have their breasts handled by a man.

We have male gynaecological and obstetric practitioners for historical reasons, and most women accept them. But this service was set up to be staffed by women, for women, and should not be changed.

Sincerely

And have you noticed, the men weren't too keen on having a finger up the bum so there IS a blood test.
Yet there's now a self test option for HPV and we are still being "invited" in for the old style crank and scrape test. Hey we're women, right?

And it makes no sense when we are told we can REQUEST A female for smears

I really do not care if a man or woman does breast screening/mammograms. It’s a medical setting and while I agree women should be able to request female only staff, I think it is wrong to bar all men for all women. It just reeks of extreme religious origin prudishness where a woman is profane if she is seen by a man other than her husband.

If a minority of women want only women, I’d support it. So even if I am a minority of women who do not care and think men providing these medical services is ok, then I would expect that to be supported too.

I have had many male medical professionals screen and treat every inch of me. I think it it’s important that we don’t create stovepipes where only one sex can practice certain fields of medicine. I support the right of women to request female medics only for themselves. I don’t support the desire of some women to prohibit male medics for all women.

The shortage is down to Trusts being in a financial mess and so unwilling to recruit. It’s always been like that since I qualified-people who have a job rushed off their feet but they won’t recruit someone to share the load. I’ve heard of new nurses unable to find jobs. In mammography, any shortages are not because women won’t do the job-especially with assistant practitioners-we get loads of applicants for those positions.

Then you don’t support women. And women having boundaries, having their privacy, dignity and safety respected is nothing to do with religious prudishness - that just tells me how dismissive you are and how you want to shut down discussion.

I question why any man would want to job that requires him to handle women’s breasts for a living.

My mammographer disputed that there is a shortage - she said there are loads of women wanting the job because it’s 9-5 and a good salary.

She put it down to the alphabet lobby in the NHS.