Allow Male Workers to perform mammograms and breast screening

[CrakdEgg]

OK, so the Society & College of Radiographers have their annual delegates conference, where members bring forward motions for the union to lobby on.
In the past they have passed motions to 'remove gendered language' from health communications for inclusivity - you know, 'pregnant people' and the like. They then lobby behind the scenes to the Government to follow these requests.

This year we have this motion -

Allow Male Workers to Perform Mammograms

Workforce shortages: there are 15 posts for mammographers on NHS jobs. In the UK.

But are we bothered? Do we not want males in this space, or does it not matter because we have male gynaecologists? Or will it dissuade women from attending?

I am interested to hear other people's opinions. My instincts say 'no way Jose', but I am interested in keeping males out of female spaces, so I accept my bias.

Thoughts?

And I think we should listen to the (female) mammographers who are on the shop floor, who understand that this appears to be a pack of lies and a push by the alphabet lobby.
Juxtaposed with the SCR and the timing...my mind is sort of made up on that.

@borntobequiet that's a brilliant letter, thank you!

If you had found a lump then you would be seen under the 2 week appointment. You would have several tests at the hospital or breast centre, and the mammography part would be done by a woman. If the mammography showed something then you would be seen by a Dr (this can be male or female, but it's predominantly female who work in breast units) who would do a very different set of tests or interventions, all with a nurse chaperone present.

I do support women. I said several times I support women who want only female screeners. You are the one not supporting women who are fine with male screeners.

I said a complete ban on all men being screeners no matter what some women want would reek of religious prudishness.

I question why any man would want to job that requires him to handle women’s breasts for a living.

You question it because your mind is in a porno gutter.

I see we have degenerated to calling women with boundaries ‘prudes’.

It could vary by area. If I were in Dorset where there are few vacancies, it doesn't mean I'd want to go to Newcastle where they're crying out for them.

I have no idea of actual numbers of vacancies in any part of the country - my point is just that numbers are often unevenly spread for a host of different reasons, of which men not being able to become mammographers is probably pretty insignificant compared with budgets, geography, and various other factors,and some areas could be doing fine for mammographers and others less so, but that doesn't mean qualified mammographers will just up sticks and go elsewhere even if there are more jobs there, because they will have partners/spouses with jobs, children settled in school, family nearby and so on. Even if men were to be allowed to train as mammographers, it doesn't mean it would fix possible recruitment issues.

I’m not calling any women prudes. They can request a female screener, I fully support their right. I am saying a complete ban on male screeners would be prudish. The ban is prudish. Not women.

I wouldn’t be bothered tbh

Ever had a mammogram @SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice ?

My not wanting a man doing them is not down to religious prudishness and, without knowing the religious and ethnic background of others who have posted here, I think most people on this thread are the same.

Edited to add: you’re saying the ban is prudish, not women but it’s mainly women calling for it.

Yes, I have had several mammograms, and breast ultrasounds, and breast MRIs, and breast surgery, and breast radiation.

Men did some of these, women other. I really do not care man or woman.

I never said the religious prudishness would be a woman’s reason to not want a man doing this. I gave no reason why a woman would want only women, they don’t need a reason to request only female medics for their bodies.

I said a complete ban on men would reek of religious prudishness..a sort of the Church dictating and controlling who can do what regardless of what women want. That is my boundary as a woman, no authority should be able to tell me I can only have medics of one sex because of my sex.

I want the best medic for the job, doesn’t matter if man or woman. I am a woman and that is what I want. I know men can do this job and do it well in my experience. My boundary is no one gets to dictate to me what sex a screener must be for MY body.

At my recent mammogram for a lump i had found i was first examined by a male doctor before going into another room for the mammogram which was performed by a woman. I'm very self conscious of my breasts and was extremely embarrassed and felt very uncomfortable upon walking into the room to see a male was going to examine me. I was very relieved to get it over with. All was OK, but I would have definitely have preferred a woman. But I suppose if there's a shortage and it's saving womens lives then it's best that men do these jobs than nobody.

Nonsense. It would shriek of centring women in women’s healthcare.

Isn’t centring women in women’s healthcare about including all women’s voices? Including women who are fine with men doing this healthcare? You will still have women for yourself to do your healthcare. It will reduce waiting times if those of us who don’t care tick a box and we fill the appts with the men, which frees up more appts with women for women who only want women.

There’s a difference between women “being fine” (which suggests a degree of putting up with it) with male mammographers and women requesting male mammographers.

Have women been requesting scans by men? If they have, in numbers, then of course that should be supported.

If they haven’t, then it means this isn’t coming from women, it’s being imposed on them. That isn’t women-centred.

There is something about a mammogram which is different from a breast examination by a doctor when you are lying down on a couch in my opinion. There is a feeling of being exposed standing there in your waist slip or jeans and having to walk around the room with your breasts out which is different. The positioning and handling then is of course much more intrusive than a couch exam. Myself I would rather have a woman and would not be happy with a male. It's comparable to a man getting an ultrasound of his testicles on a couch as opposed to having to walk across a room in his t shirt and bare below that.

Yes there is a difference, but you are wrong to demand that we must request male mammographers to be listened to. Requesting one sex is to request only that sex. For those of us who are fine with either man or woman, it makes no sense to request only men. So, that is why I am requesting no ban on men.

If they haven’t, then it means this isn’t coming from women, it’s being imposed on them..

You are trying to impose on me, a woman, that we exclude half the population from certain aspects of women’s healthcare due to their sex. I don’t think we should. I am fine with individuals requesting women only for their needs, but not a blanket ban as that disregards other women like myself.

You can’t flip the narrative and act like someone is imposing my view on me, that is infantilising and dismissive. I know my own mind.

When I'm examined genitally, it's with a speculum and other instruments. The gynaecologist or smear nurse doesn't actually touch me and there's also no eye contact whilst she is working. Even then, I need a female smear nurse because of my sexual assault history.

The mammographer has to physically grab the women's breasts and position them in the mammography machine. She's working at eye level with her patient and actually touching her patient's breasts, so it feels much more intimate.

The "I don't mind" brigade do not have the authority to give up women's rights when other women still need those rights.

I’m not giving up anyone’s rights, I fully support your right to request a female mammographer. All I expect in return is you support my right to be able to choose the best medic, man or women for my health needs. Banning men from women’s healthcare is giving up my right to choose. You don’t have that authority.

OK - there has been no request from women for both male and female mammographers. Up until this was mooted, women have been fine have their mammograms done by women only.

Please don’t think that making something single-sex, especially when it involves keeping men away from handling women’s breasts, is in some way regressive. You’re suggested it’s religious prudishness. I think that’s a profoundly anti-woman sentiment in this context.

Nobody is give up anyone’s rights.

i don’t mind if a mammographer is male. However I will still stand up for anyone’s right to have a health care practitioner of their choice.

just because I am happy to be seen by a male mammographer does not remove your right to be seen by a female one.

you absolutely still have that right.

It's bad enough that I have to disclose my rape every time I go for a smear test to try to get the nurse to avoid using certain words that trigger vaginismus, without also having to remember to state that I refuse a male mammographer when going for breast screening.

It's not religious prudishness, it's recognising that women have many reasons for wanting or even needing privacy from the opposite sex, dignity in healthcare, and a low-threat environment when we are half-naked. When so many of us want or need this, it makes sense to give all of us that by default.

This is a great thread from Janice Turner on the mammogram discussion. Some of the contributors to this thread should read it. She's bang on.

https://x.com/VictoriaPeckham/status/1917849622736752831

Adding the requirement to request a woman is just going to add another barrier for some women.

Do you really think that you get to choose which medic you get in the NHS? That you get to "choose the best medic"? You are claiming to have a right to choose a medic based on competence that does not exist in the UK.

Are you American, perhaps?