Allow Male Workers to perform mammograms and breast screening

[CrakdEgg]

OK, so the Society & College of Radiographers have their annual delegates conference, where members bring forward motions for the union to lobby on.
In the past they have passed motions to 'remove gendered language' from health communications for inclusivity - you know, 'pregnant people' and the like. They then lobby behind the scenes to the Government to follow these requests.

This year we have this motion -

Allow Male Workers to Perform Mammograms

Workforce shortages: there are 15 posts for mammographers on NHS jobs. In the UK.

But are we bothered? Do we not want males in this space, or does it not matter because we have male gynaecologists? Or will it dissuade women from attending?

I am interested to hear other people's opinions. My instincts say 'no way Jose', but I am interested in keeping males out of female spaces, so I accept my bias.

Thoughts?

I am opposed to the idea of having male radiographers.

However, it has occurred to me that transwomen who take cross sex hormones and/or breast implants may have a higher risk of breast cancer and as such may be eligible for mammograms. In the same way female police officers may not want to strip search TW, radiographers may feel the same meaning a male radiographer might be needed for TW.

Additionally, transmen who have not had surgery will still need mammograms. Is it unreasonable to suggest TM may prefer a male radiographer?

The problem is the small number of trans people spread around the country would make it impractical to have male radiographers full time as they would only be required occasionally.

Radiographers don’t just do mammography. They also take x-rays of other parts of your body (eg broken wrist), and do other types of imaging.

Women who want/need/prefer to have female radiographers are not being precious. Don't be so bloody ridiculous.

@Sausagenbacon as it happens I found the lump that was cancer myself. I was okay with the radiographer who did the needle biopsy being a man as he needed to touch me much less. I’ve had 8 mammograms since then. One of those was with a piece of wire in my breast (so the consultant could find the lump when I was lying down). I would have sucked it up if I really had no choice of a man doing them, but it would have been emotionally very stressful.

I've had male gynaecologists stick things inside me, look at my legs spread wide open during childbirth, and check out my haemorrhoids. Also had a male one take a biopsy from my vagina. So probably why I don't think a male person manhandling my boobs for a professional reason would bother me. But you're right I've not had one done before so I don't actually know, but in my head it's not bothering me. I work in healthcare though so may be different for me. I know plenty people refuse male carers, however when I've needed them in hospital they've often been more caring and proficient than some the female HCAs - so my experiences are probably different.

I think it’s worse and I’ve had a brace of people rummaging around my nethers. It is far more intimate. They are face to face with you, handling your breasts, pulling them into position, maybe having to touch your nipples in the process.

I agree with this.
I think it’s somehow more intimate and I would hate to be standing eyeball to eyeball with a male radiographer while he squeezes and manhandles my breasts into the machine.
Somehow lying down and have a gynae exam allows you to be more distant from the procedure ( in your head )

Exactly. It’s a really awkward procedure.

In the hospital setting I’d probably be fine with it.
but the routine screening in an isolated windowless cabin - much less so… it’s the context and not just the mechanics of the scan itself

Thank you.
I hate it when women’s discomfort, embarrassment or feelings of loss of dignity are dismissed as “being precious “.
It’s really important to minimise embarrassment and stress in healthcare situations as much as possible.

I’ve had umpteen gynae examinations and scans by men and also had male doctors examine my breasts but would draw the line at a mammogram. It is deeply undignified, your breasts are literally manhandled into position while you stand there half naked. While I am at it, why on earth hasn’t some other way of doing this been devised?

It couldn’t work like that. There are women who wouldn’t turn up at all, women from certain religions and cultures, those who have suffered SA and so on. The whole point of screening is you get as many people to go as possible not exclude them. You clearly have no understanding of the issues women face constantly. I wouldn’t expect you to but I do wonder why you are on a thread on a women’s forum arguing for women to accept intimate handling by a male.

I really wish the women making a song and dance about how much they personally don't care would understand that it is, therefore, not about them and just support the right of other women to a female practitioner without qualification.

What does your dh have to do with any of this? 😆

I have mine in a hospital and I wouldn’t want a man doing it there either.

The woman doing my mammogram, who was too young to have had them done herself, said she wouldn’t like a man to do it. She was pregnant and also said she wouldn’t like a male midwife either.
She was pretty cross at the suggestion at all and it sounded like none of her colleagues thought it a good idea either. Our hospital serves a very diverse area with lots of women from religious and conservative cultures.

This

I have seen comments all over social media from mammographers opposing the idea. But the official party line is 'the world has changed' and 'there's a shortage of radiographers' (NOT mammographers)

I see that there a conference for mammographers in Bournemouth later on this year. What's betting that there's another soft launch there?

I know plenty people refuse male carers, however when I've needed them in hospital they've often been more caring and proficient than some the female HCAs

Why are people so intent on ensuring men have equal opportunities in this specific field - to the extent that they undermine women's professionalism and proficiency - when many women are specifically stating a preference for female care? It's very strange.

Well, as I said my mammographer disputed that there’s a shortage.

Inam a "don't care" who has said that I support choice without detriment.

Is Kemi Badenoch wrong about breast exams?

There is an opinion piece in the times with a for and against piece by two journalists. The for piece is by Shane Watson, a journalist I’m not familiar with. Her argument seems to be that she was happy to be treated by men when she had breast cancer so that makes it all right for everyone.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/fea4496a-25e0-4c49-bce3-12e1e4de36d9?shareToken=f5e8feb1ebc6cf5f7aea5e2b57e429dd

Certainly I've read women don't return for further smears! Some completely opt out to avoid the "persuasion" and repeat "invitations". Sure I read the same for mammograms, though now more information about the programmes are coming out, I think a lot are making informed decisions not to screen.

I've had male gynaes and female gynaes, and each time I would have much rather it was a female (30-plus years of working in the NHS, if that's relevant). Unfortunately, the choice was not offered on the day - although I dare say I could have stated in advance that I didn't want a male. However, I'm sure that would have put me further down the waiting list, which is precisely what will happen here.

Male HCPs in hospital is a very different scenario - many vulnerable women not want a male doing intimate care 1 on 1 in their own home or in an isolated setting.

Every woman who says they don't care because it doesn't personally affect them right now is chipping away protection from a woman who does care, and helping their rights to be removed from them.

Its beyond time that women started to take responsibility for supporting all women's protections and not shrugging and walking away because they don't personally want to use them today. If you cannot summon up empathy or responsibility for other women then keep in mind you are only ever, God forbid, a day away from an experience that may leave you desperately wanting and needing women-only services yourself. If it does, then you'll have to hope other women fought hard enough without you that they will still be there for you.