Christine Jardine MP: Ensure rights that trans people have freely used for decades are not overturned

[SidewaysOtter]

Lib Dem spokesperson for Women and Equalities. Guess she doesn’t care so much about the “women” part of that title, eh? 🙄

It's definitely from the lib dems, but I think it came from ammiee channelor (sp) he's the guy who was also a green member at 1 point before his dads pedophilic crimes came to light and the fact that he'd had his dad as a paid member of staff whilst he was awaiting trial for the kidnap, rape and torture of a little girl. Glinner has a whole bunch of info about the channelor's on his site if you want to know more

All the more reason to write to her

Thanks @Schoolchoicesucks I think I remember Phillipson saying the opposite when she was pressed in a radio interview during the election campaign so it's particularly satisfying to hear this confirmed by her.

As for Christine Jardine, if she were my MP I'd be asking her to clarify which rights she's talking about - the right for trans people not to be discriminated against - which they still have, or the right to use single sex spaces belonging to the opposite sex - which they never had?

The rights they assumed they had because male, and have now been told they never had.

Try again, Christine.

It’s incredibly frustrating that people are planning to carry on pushing against the law. I feel like this is a chance for a reset. Absolutely create spaces for trans people but stop with the whataboutery.

That men have been using women’s spaces for years is exactly what people have been complaining about. The highest court in the land has upheld they are woman’s spaces and an MPs answer is how can we best enable this travesty to continue?

they overturned women’s rights, freely using them when they had no right to.
How dare she say their rights have been overturned?

Ah that’s who it was, I only caught the end of that bit. Excellent that it was Phillipson. I do feel a bit sorry for politicians at the moment, the media is trying to get them to say the words “Transwomen are men and need to use men’s loos” so they can clip it. Then the MP in question gets piled on by the TRA mob.

Exactly. I’m sorry that what you thought was the case turned out to be wrong, chaps, but it brings to mind a family saying: “You know what “thought” did, don’t you? Followed a muck cart, thought it were a wedding”.

(For full effect, please apply a northern accent.)

Exactly this! Misogyny, Racism & Religious bigotry has been around for thousands of years and for most of that time were legal and/or enforced by the government. Happily the law has now changed, and we quite literally should obey it.

It's great BP was so clear about trans people using single sex facilities on the basis of their biological sex - so why the need for third spaces?

'Third spaces' has become a post-SC-ruling mantra, but let's just think about what that actually means:
there is already a requirement under the law and building regs for women's, men's and accessible toilets, and providing a FOURTH toilet for a tiny percentage of the population who identify as trans, would be expensive and disruptive.

I wouldn't describe that as a 'workable solution', it sounds like a financial and logistical nightmare.

The existing 'third space' is the accessible toilet for disabled people who need adapted toilets, and as I've said elsewhere we have to be really vigilant that accessible toilets aren't sneakily re-branded as 'gender-neutral'.
They weren't put there for able-bodied trans people to feel more 'comfortable' in, they are for disabled people full stop.

I think this is what we should be asking of all MPs who are bewailing the SC decision. Do they support the above because that is where the claim TWAW leads. It's so easy to focus on toilets and plenty of media has been doing that but again it is centring men and what they think they have an entitlement to rather than focusing on women's legal rights to provide dignity and safety

Oh dear. Christine. Love.

There was no 'right' for men to use and commandeer women's spaces, there never was. Nothing has been lost, the people whose rights had been damaged were women's.

It doesn't matter what Christine thinks, the law has been clarified by the Supreme Court and it's over.

It's sad of course that men are upset about this unlawful entry being finally stopped, but no one gave a damn when it was women upset so it's a bit rich expecting that it's ok to do to women but not to men? Unless you're extremely sexist and that's most of what is driving you.

The blame should be heading towards the people who lied to men for so long. And the rather questionable women who decided that women didn't matter and the main thing about women's spaces was to hand them performatively to men like a Very Good Girl.

I've no objection to additional spaces (that don't repurpose a disabled space) but they were being widely proposed, to absolutely no effect, when I first found this board 10 years ago. I'm not going to expend any further energy arguing for them.

There really is for some of these righteous women, a sense almost of noble sacrifice of women to men.

Wtaf otherwise could you be on about when wittering about the horrors of a man being told he can't strip search a woman? 'Overreaction' I think the Whatsapp message commented.

Now they want to talk!

appropriately designed mixed sex spaces (fgs not ‘gender neutral’. I can’t think of anywhere that isn’t ’gender Neutral’ whether it’s single of mixed sex) are very useful for parents with an opposite sex child. That’s one of the reasons that facilities like large swimming pools usually provide some.

Agree that this sort of toilet space would actually be useful for families and others. I am noting the irony though that when women suggested this it was ignored or derided. If it does now gather traction it'll be because men decided they needed it after all 🙄

It is absolutely doable, the disabled provision was shouted down initially as too expensive, too difficult, no room, ridiculous demand - once it became a legal requirement, with funding available from LAs to ease the pouting and stamping, it got done quite quickly. In some situations it will have to be provided and should be, and absolutely will be useful in access and equality for more groups than TQ, but I'd hope the funding for men is always pulled from the men's funding allocation rather than the women's stream as usual being expected to cover it.

Also if travelling with a frail opposite sex parent and don't want to clutter up the disabled loo.

Fact is, mixed-sex spaces are useful for all sorts not just trans.

But TW continue to think expecting them to use them instead of the ladies is insulting, unpleasant, othering, outing, and a privacy abuse.

Marital rape was only criminalised in 1991, prior to that it was a 'right' that men had enjoyed freely for decades.

The problem is, in part, the immersive role play. A genuinely dyphoric man in the ladies can fool himself more easily that he's one of the girls. In the men's it's harder for him to maintain the illusion that he isn't just a man in a dress. This is obviously ignoring the perverts and fetishists also crowding into the ladies.

And that's the real reason why third spaces aren't wanted (that doesn't mean they won't have to be accepted).

There will be plenty of women in there, Layla Moran et al who are lucky enough to have no concerns about using mixed sex spaces and consent to do so, and plenty I'm sure will use them on principle to support male TQ people.

I think it’s even more important to write to MPs when their views differ from yours otherwise they operate in a bubble. Make clear that as your constituency MP she should recognise that many of her constituents welcome the ruling and don’t agree with her public statements.

This makes Jardin and Lib Dems position clear. They are in fantasy land. There is no middle road here.

It seems Labour are going to follow the law from what Phillipson said again today. So this will put pressure on th Lib Dems to go honest.

They can either campaign in the elections on May 15th to remove the rights of women OR don't.

So for members of the public we put pressure on the Lib Dems to say what they mean. They want to take away women's rights.

So yes DO write to Jardin. Ask them to condemn the threats and actual violence on the weekend [see what happened in Sheffield]. Ask them to condemn the Scottish Green's attack on the rule of law and the judicary.

Ask them to tell the truth. Other political parties have campaigned to remove women's rights on other matters. If they want it do that SAY IT OPENLY.

I agree. I have a DS with a disability who needed help getting changed after swimming long after it was appropriate for him to come into the women's changing rooms with me. Having some unisex toilets and changing rooms would benefit lots of people.

Meanwhile I'm appalled, but not surprised, the LibDems are clinging pathetically to their misogynistic rhetoric.

So tempting to just keep saying things along the line of "Get over it. Men aren't women. No debate! " over and over to the likes of Christine