Them and they isn’t the right term right?

[storminabuttercup]

On Friday we were discussing the ruling at work, a man in my team (who’s teen identifies as they) said it’s just easier to refer to everyone as they/them?

i disagree massively he’s confused the hell out of us with this already

I’m not they or them because I’m a woman and not plural, he’s been doing this for months now and I’ve bit my tongue

how would you handle this?

Exactly this! We don’t have anyone we work with who identifies as ‘they’ but there’s been times it’s caused confusion, like ‘Kates got someone working on this, Jo, can send them the info?’ ‘Yeah sure who else is on it? I’ll give them all access to the file’ ‘oh just Jo’ ‘yeah but the others need access?’ ‘No just Jo’

Wouldn’t ‘they’ be really confusing??

Instead of asking How are you, he’d ask How are they? Who does he mean..???

I can’t even imagine They or Them being used for anything else than the plural!

Of course you wouldn't say "how are they" instead of "how are you?"
They/ them is used in place of he/she/her/him
Not I/me/ you

How do we know their sex?

usually their name gives it away, or how they look?

Julie, Susan, Kelly = female

John, Steve, Keith = male

and as the poster says ‘If we know’ the only time I’d be unsure is with colleagues offshore where it’s not obvious if it’s a male or female name (to me at least) interestingly my offshore colleagues (India) avoid using the whole she/her thing in email signatures as they find it encourages misogyny…

Don’t police the language he uses when you aren’t there- it’s his language and we don’t want pronouns being policed.

Do ask for clarification constantly.
Which they? They who? Sorry do you mean Joe or Katie? Or Joe and Katy? Hang on, who did you say was sorting the spreadsheets?

This is good advice

I kind of do this now.

This always amazes me. Presumably the boss doesn't have any loved women or girls in their life.

Get a badge made stating
My name is.....
My pronouns are.....

I agree. If he wants call everyone ‘they’ let him. Maybe just email back every time you are not clear who’ they’ is referring to: do you mean Frank with they or also others? Are you expecting me to do something as you said ‘they’? Oh I assumed someone else would do it as you said ‘they’.

I hate this. I use she/her whenever I can if I'm writing about a hypothetical person e.g. 'if a researcher wants to do this, then she should be able to'. I'm so angry with the assumption being that it would be a man for so many centuries, I want to level the playing field a bit by assuming it's a woman instead. Why are so many people so happy about erasing an entire gender as soon as it wins a bit of equality!?

But that’s still really confusing..!

When he says ‘I’ll talk to them’ wouldn’t everyone assume he means at least two people???

Or when he asks ‘Where are they’…??

God. ‘They’ has been used as a singular term since Shakespeare’s time for people whose sex you don’t know.

But this man is asking something inappropriate in an office. Just use he or she as usual, unless someone wants to be called they.

ask him to refer to you by your name and with female sexed pronouns. He doesn’t get to decide how to refer to other people!!

I wouldn’t particularly care if I was called he, and in return, I’d expect the ability to call someone he if he was a man without being penalised for it, even if he disagreed. I’m not sure you can demand other people use particular pronouns if you are not willing to be compelled yourself.

I (reluctantly) agree - although I would similarly expect him not to police other people's language when they use 'traditional' pronouns.

The only people who usually use 'they' for all individuals - including those whom they know well and who don't ever claim to 'identify as' anything other than the sex that they clearly are - tend to be teenagers and very young adults who haven't yet fully grasped the nuances of (and respect for) people being different individuals who can't just all be shoved in the same box.

If a grown man who is old enough and supposedly responsible enough to be a manager wants everybody to quietly think (and judge) that he acts like a teenager, that's on him. Does he also respond to emails with "Bruh" or use 'like' as every other word in all his sentences?!

But that's the whole point of using 'they' to refer to a single unknown or hypothetical person, rather than the historical 'he' for everybody.

"If a customer wants to exchange an item, they must show their receipt" is perfectly normal and standard.

"Wiliam just called to say that their car has broken down, so they will either have to get the train or work remotely today from their home" is absolutely nonsensical (assuming that William is a 'standard' old-fashioned male man, of course).

I’m curious, OP - does the colleague really refer to everyone as ‘they’ with nary a he or she?

“If customers want to exchange an item, they must show their receipt”

”If a customer wants to return an item, he/she must show their receipt”

What point are you trying to make here?

"Wiliam just called to say that their car has broken down, so they will either have to get the train or work remotely today from their home" is absolutely nonsensical

I would assume the speaker meant William and his partner/family/housemates would have to get the train or work remotely.

Yes sometimes two pronouns can be confusing, if you have two different women involved in what you're saying and use "she". And then people ask for clarification. Making all singular and plural third person pronouns "they" massively increases the chance of ambiguity.

My bet would be your colleague will lose interest in talking so unnaturally in time, and the less attention you give him the sooner that will happen. For now I think best thing is to ignore him unless you need to ask for clarification.

Well yes, using "they" for a single person that you know the sex of could be confusing.

But asking if he says "how are they?" Instead of "how are you?" Makes you sound a bit silly. Pronouns such he/ she/ they aren't usually used about the person you are talking to.

Yes, that would be equally 'normal' - but why the mixing of pronouns?

Surely you would either use he/she and his/her OR they and their?

That @IfYouPutASausageInItItsNotAViennetta grammar is incorrect

Eh?!

My daughter's all girls school used to this. Everyone was "they" , "student", "your child". I complained several times about my daughter being referred to in a letter about just her as "they". I said that there is nothing wrong with being female and avoiding using words like daughter and girl was anti-female. The Headteacher in a zoom meeting with lots of parents told me when I asked about it that it was to be inclusive. This school got national attention a few years ago and was reported to the Dept of Education for sending out a sixth form Pride newsletter to ask the girls without reading it and it had an article on "safe binding". This is how captured the school was. If it was to do with trans there was no need for safeguarding.

The PTA always used female words. I guess the school couldn't tell them off.

Thankfully the times have changed and there is a new Head, who uses "she" and "daughter" and "girl". I'm delighted to be back to normal.