Have you ever mistaken a woman for a man?

[Moltenpink]

I’m seeing a lot on Twitter & TikTok about how the new ruling means that women will be challenged in bathrooms if they present as masculine.

I just don’t see it happening. I know women of all shapes, sizes, heights, muscle tone, haircuts. I know butch lesbians and women who have lost all their hair from chemo. I never see them as male in appearance.

Personally, I’m 6ft tall, broad shouldered, I don’t wear make up or dresses but I don’t feel like anyone would mistake me for a man.

GrammarTeacher

It’s happened to lots of people. Including famous people including Gwendolyn Christie - who is just really tall.

What?! Even without a scrap of makeup, I can't see how anyone could possibly mistake her for a man!

There are 7 or 8 MTFs in my area and they're all easily clocked. I did get fooled by an FTM once. I was out with two dog walking cronies and as you do, stopped as our dogs investigated "his" dog. "He had a teddy boy style and a luxurious ginger beard.

As we walked away, one crony whispered,

"He used to be a she, you know!"

I'd thought, slightly built, small, effeminate gay man.

The thing that people are missing, is that Trans-Women have behaved aggresively on public platforms to any woman who has questioned them, that they have proved the point about why they might be unsafe in a room alone with women when they are undressing.

JK Rowlings original tweet was reasonable, and the responses were so aggressive that it showed how a lot of men who think they are women are very mysoginistic.

Women simply do not get this behaviour from Trans-Men. They shot themselves in the foot by 1) behaving mysoginistically and aggressively and b) for not stamping that shit out at the beginning. They have allowed the harassment and bullying of women and that is on them.

Yup. Purely because of how tall she is.
I’m fortunate to be only slightly above average and have large breasts. Because if we were being judged on shoe size I would be assumed male (size 9).

I had this new line of ‘gotchas’ because it’s so nonsensical when you weigh up the other options.

The alternative to women only spaces being for biological women is for anyone with a ‘gender identity’ of woman - so any man who says he’s a woman. Why is the risk of some masculine women potentially being questioned or having to have beared trans men in single sex spaces worse than having any actual man (beared or not) able to just say ‘I’m a woman’ and we can’t question.

Yes, obviously it wouldn’t be nice for women to be questioned but the alternative is just having to accept any male bodied person at any time without question because we can’t ask who has a GRC so would have to assume they are a ‘woman’.

All of a sudden they are concerned about gender non conforming women and transmen. Give me a break

I’ve noticed this. The likes of Jane Fae handwringing about transmen since the SC judgement has been fascinating. The male transactivists were entirely focussed on their own interests until Wednesday. They were happy to trash transmen’s maternity rights so they could carry on using women’s facilities, and still would. Selfish hypocrites. Thank goodness FWS had transmen’s back. The toilet situation will work itself out, though I’m certain there will be unhappy males. Leaving transmen without the rights befitting their biological needs would have been unforgivable.

I've never yet seen a trans m2f who I didn't immediately know, in RL or online.

Would anyone here mistake Mathilde de Morny for a man?

I'm doing a study of Belle Epoque women- she was a famous lesbian socialite who dated Colette, known for her masculine behaviour. TRAs have tried to claim her but I view this as butch erasure based on the evidence. People of her time often fid mistake her for a man, but she worked hard at perfecting a masculine walk & bound her breasts, plus at that time most French women didn't wear trousers as you needed a permit.

Picture here

Solely from that picture, hairstyle and dressed like that my first thoughts would probably be male. But stills aren't the whole picture and voice, gait, body frame/shape etc, would probably tell a different story.

That you know of

Yes, when I posted it here before I got the same response.

However, as I said, Missy (her ironically feminine nickname) strapped her breasts & practised a masculine gait, plus women of those days would very rarely wear trousers, so these probs all contributed. As you say, photos give a different impression & black & white ones are less clear.y

I have seen a few young TW online recently that I could have mistaken for real women. But they had lip and cheek fillers which softened the face, lashes, and the heavy contoured make up that many young women favour these days.
Still, as it's online it's more than likely they have used filters too. It's probably easier for younger people to pass than older men, particularly if they've taken puberty blockers.
Saying that a friend's son is trans and he's very boyish looking with premature male pattern baldness and no amount of make up makes any difference.

@AliasGrace47 I think the hairstyle and that jacket contribute a lot to that. I've just covered the hair up with my thumb and it makes a difference. And yes of course if most women of that era wore completely different clothing and hairstyles, Missy could be easily confused with a man, not so much these days

I think these are the TW that people often picture when they think of TW. But as you say, it's highly likely more obvious in real life and even if they do "pass" they're in the minority.

Not me but my college lecturer did it to a woman on a course we were on. She went purple when she realised

No I haven’t and to be honest I feel like it won’t create any issues in public bathrooms so I don’t know why there is so much focus on that. In places such as workplaces where women know a person is a man for example and have to share a bathroom or changing room with them, this will now hopefully prevent that from happening.

That’s interesting that she was frequently challenged. Most women I know say they hate confrontation so even if they saw someone very masculine-presenting in a ladies loo I doubt very much they’d say anything at all for fear of an argument or worse.
In fact I can’t remember ever witnessing someone being challenged in a loo or changing room.

I see a few ( walk past a college) and the truth is, the only ‘male marker’ is facial hair. If they didn’t have their moustaches and beard there would be nothing else ‘male’ about them. Hands, jaw, brow, gait, size, make them very obviously (troubled) young women. I do fear for their longer term health and happiness.

No. My androgynous-dressing mother never got mistaken for anything other than female either during her bald chemo stage, or post double mastectomy, though she is quite short.

Yes, I have. Mainly older women. It's a quick double take to sort it out.

I actually also think tradesmen are more convincing than any transwomen I have personally met.

But the female you describe is someone who has surgically altered their body and takes cross sex hormones to produce secondary sexual characteristics. They are attempting to ‘deceive’ or ‘pass’, no one is mistaking them for a man and then ‘realising’ that they are a woman, which is what I believe the OP is discussing.

This query is often used as a stalking horse for men who wish to use women’s facilities( not this time). It implies that women will now be mobbing any woman who does not fit the transgender ideology of female appearance if they see them in a single sex space. Highly unlikely IMHO, just another example of innate ‘difference’, in this case, aggression v. Fear as a reaction to the apparently threatening.

Yes it does happen.

I once mostook a teenage boy for a teenage girl. I apologised profusely to him & his mum, of course. He had very long blond hair to his waist.

@Frowningprovidence tradesmen? 😁

No, our brains are programmed to recognise the sexes based on facial proportions. This is why facial surgery is performed on those who want the whole kit and kerboodle when transitioning from male to female.