Have you ever mistaken a woman for a man?

[Moltenpink]

I’m seeing a lot on Twitter & TikTok about how the new ruling means that women will be challenged in bathrooms if they present as masculine.

I just don’t see it happening. I know women of all shapes, sizes, heights, muscle tone, haircuts. I know butch lesbians and women who have lost all their hair from chemo. I never see them as male in appearance.

Personally, I’m 6ft tall, broad shouldered, I don’t wear make up or dresses but I don’t feel like anyone would mistake me for a man.

there is also how people dress. The trans women I’ve seen dress overly feminine often inappropriately sexual for the setting if not overly sexy it’s blouses female footwear and pat butcher earrings. they are clearly trying to come across female. Those who make no effort to present female give off such strong misogynistic vibes to me often dangerous vibes. No transman would dress this way. If I met someone dressed in practical male clothing in the woman’s now and their behaviour was normal for a public female toilet I’d assume they were transman or just a gender non conforming woman and not challenge

Def agree about the hair. Jacket also- Missy was Napoleon III's niece, hence the epaulettes, & this is another strong cue to read her as male, both then & now.

I think also personal experience plays a role here : Missy looks quite a lot like a masculine lesbian who was my HOY in Y7- she also had a similarly authoritative but kind personality to Missy's reported one. Posters here on FWR are probs more likely to be lesbian or know lesbians than the majority of women, and butch lesbians are still (arguably more now) badly represented in media. Off the top of my head, I can only really think of Ellen & Lea de Laria as butch lesbians in the public eye, & both are arguably not v prominent these days.

So I do think people here may be underestimating the likelihood of this happening. I think tho it is the kind of thing that happens much more in the US, as esp in certain states the pressure to be ultrafeminine seems much stronger & bigotry is also stronger. Anyway, now we have won women's rights back, we can focus on lesbian issues as one of the next steps.

My 12yo autistic DS has been misgendering everyone since he was born. He's only mildly autistic and is in mainstream school but does struggle with social cues.

It's genuinely astonishing - he was listening to a female YouTube video narration and was convinced they were male. He's called me Daddy twice today!

I think his autism is affecting his natural understanding of sex and/or gender.

Haven't read the full thread. I'm a lesbian and I know some lesbian women who have been mistaken for men, particularly from a distance or behind. In particular I know one short-haired dyke who is more than 6' tall and wears male-style clothing. She has several times been mistaken for a man from behind while in the queue for the Ladies. If she's challenged she laughs about it. The moment you see her face it's apparent she's female and as soon she speaks you're in no doubt.

Women understand why women are nervous of encountering a man out of place in the women's loos or changing rooms. It's the men who are hoping you don't notice are more likely to be unpleasant. if you accidentally accuse a woman of being a man then just apologise: they will almost certainly understand.

I have, and felt horrible about it. Haunts me to this day. I'm so hyper vigilant about men using the ladies at my workplace (it happens both on purpose and accidental quite frequently) that I spotted what I thought was a man coming out of one of the cubicles. Turns out she was just a butch lesbian 😭

Once at a garage collecting my car. A short haired older woman was stood in front of me in mechanics overalls. As soon as she moved and spoke I knew she was a woman.

I wish women would apologise when they accuse me of being a man/pervert in the toilets. Usually they double down and argue! Because that's human nature I guess.

Yes. And am frequently mistaken for one myself.

equally not exactly welcome in woman's

Who is saying that trans-identified women aren't welcome in the ladies'?

The judgment describes how service providers offering a single-sex service are also exempt from the prohibition against gender-reassignment discrimination (as long as their conduct is proportionate). For example, a “trans man” (a woman living in the male gender) can be lawfully excluded from a female-only service, without this amounting to gender-reassignment discrimination.
“This might be considered proportionate where reasonable objection is taken to their presence, for example, because the gender reassignment process has given them a masculine appearance or attributes to which reasonable objection might be taken in the context of the women-only service being provided.”
https://sex-matters.org/posts/publications/supreme-court-judgment-summary-and-practical-advice/

You seem to have ignored the final bit:: to which reasonable objection might be taken in the context of the women-only service being provided.”

Toilets are a context in which other women objecting to trans-identified women are unlikely to be considered "reasonable". Domestic violence refuges and rape counseling services are contexts in which objection would be reasonable.