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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What my NHS Trust have said about the Supreme Court verdict

242 replies

Opinionpolecat · 18/04/2025 07:28

The NHS Trust I work at sent an e-mail to all staff yesterday talking about the Supreme Court ruling. They stated that the judges have said that “woman” in UK law is based on biological sex. They go on to say that they want to be clear the ruling does not change the fact that everyone is welcome in the Trust and that they are an inclusive organisation. They say everyone deserves respect and understanding including staff, patients and families. They understand that some staff members may feel they need support at this time and recommend the LGBT+ staff network where LGBT+ staff and allies can find support and advice.

It struck me that they think only LGBT+ plus staff and allies will need support and advice, and the reassurance that the trust is such an inclusive organisation. They say nothing about the fact their policies have discriminated against female staff and patients for many years. They don't even admit to it but say this wasn't their fault, it was due to NHS wide guidance and they offer no apology to female staff, patients and their allies about these years of discrimination. They say nothing about the fact that for many years some female staff and patients may not have felt welcome or included within the Trust. Have any other NHS staff had similar messages?

OP posts:
RedHelenB · 18/04/2025 09:29

Greyskybluesky · 18/04/2025 08:46

You are truly comedy gold! 😂Keep it coming!

This.

ItisntOver · 18/04/2025 09:29

Theuniversalshere1 · 18/04/2025 08:36

Is this real language used in nhs. Chest feeder? Sounds like something out of a fish tank!

Chest feeder. Birthing body or birthing parent (not mother). Cervix haver.

All used to replace familiar words like women, mother, breastfeeding etc. And the fully captured professions and organisations support it. See the recent La Leche stramash.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 18/04/2025 09:31

Shortshriftandlethal · 18/04/2025 09:26

I suspect some committed trusts may attempt to get around the ruling by providing only universal mixed sex spaces with full length doors. Sarah Montague, on Radio 4 yesterday suggested that all spaces could be named 'gendered' spaces rather than sex based spaces, for example, to get around the 'problem'.

You couldn't make this shit up. Astonishing!

Except that I believe they can’t - all trusts have signed up to a policy of eliminating mixed-sex accommodation. (They currently just “manage” this by allowing mixed-sex accommodation via a Stonewall interpretation of the word sex.)

KateShugakIsALegend · 18/04/2025 09:34

RedToothBrush · 18/04/2025 07:45

It's all about maintaining the hostile environment for women to keep complaints about how women's rights have been violated to a minimum. They certainly are not going to admit liability cos £££.

They should be saying "We understand that the ruling has caused distress to some and is an acknowledgement that the rights of others have not always been upheld as they should have within the law. We stress the law has not changed; we remain committed to equality for all and will work with all parties to uphold equality of all staff. If you have any concerns or feel this has affected you in anyway please speak to HR. All concerns will be dealt with discreetly. We understand that this affects a large number of people in different ways. The trust understands that the privacy and dignity of all staff and patients remains paramount. Going forward our focus is on providing high quality standards of care for patients and ensuring all staff feel safe in their work environment. We expect all staff to remain professional and to treat others with respect and be sensitive to all surrounding this subject. We will issue updated guidance as soon as possible".

It should be neutral not dick pandering. It's ok to acknowledge some don't like and need reassurance but equally you need to stress that others have been let down and not had their rights upheld as they should be. And it should stress professionalism and respect but in no particular direction.

Really impressed by this, RedToothBrush.

My fitmnis currently silent, and before they come under pressure, I would like to send an email along the lines of 'i would like to present my perspective, which is one of relief. I welcome the clarification of my rights. The judgement speaks of the rights of trans people, which I support, but it makes it clear that those rights cannot come at the expense of the rights of women'.

Any thoughts?

It would be great to be able to speak up so that countering voices to the 'you must be an anti trans hater' hysteria which we will undoubtedly see and hear more of.

Shortshriftandlethal · 18/04/2025 09:38

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 18/04/2025 09:31

Except that I believe they can’t - all trusts have signed up to a policy of eliminating mixed-sex accommodation. (They currently just “manage” this by allowing mixed-sex accommodation via a Stonewall interpretation of the word sex.)

Does that just relate to wards, though...or does it also relate to changing rooms and toilet facilities?

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 18/04/2025 09:39

Shortshriftandlethal · 18/04/2025 09:38

Does that just relate to wards, though...or does it also relate to changing rooms and toilet facilities?

If I remember correctly, just wards.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 18/04/2025 09:40

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 18/04/2025 09:39

If I remember correctly, just wards.

Or rather, just spaces for patients. Staff have different policies.

Shortshriftandlethal · 18/04/2025 09:42

BaileySharp · 18/04/2025 09:07

My trust sent a message out too. Of course either could be the same trust as for anonymity we probably don't want to say where we work!

I'll share the highlights

  • Regardless of the ruling or judgement handed down, our commitment to inclusion, dignity, and respect for all — including our patients, our trans and nonbinary colleagues, friends and loved ones — remains unwavering.
  • hate has no place here and everyone deserves to be recognised for who they are, to feel safe in their workplace, and to know they belong. That is not up for debate.
  • We will be working to urgently review Trust policies to ensure that they remain legally compliant.
  • if you witness or experience anything that doesn’t align with our values, I encourage you to speak up — we will listen, and we will act.

So, Big Brother is still going to be watching you...so don't dare make any complaints about our non compliancy with the law.

EweSurname · 18/04/2025 09:42

Transwomen not wanting to change with men = they’re just trying to live their lives, completely fair, they need dignity, privacy comes first etc

women not wanting to change with men = “not everyone wants to have sex with you or see you with your bits out”

Shortshriftandlethal · 18/04/2025 09:43

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 18/04/2025 09:39

If I remember correctly, just wards.

Yes, that's my concern right now......that trusts and other organisations will try to get around the ruling.

sashh · 18/04/2025 09:45

They understand that some staff members may feel they need support at this time and recommend the LGBT+ staff network where LGBT+ staff and allies can find support and advice.

I would do just that.

In writing.

I'm a woman whop has suffered at the hands of the policies of the trust, I have been advised to ask you for support, what help can you give me?

Merrymouse · 18/04/2025 09:47

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 18/04/2025 09:31

Except that I believe they can’t - all trusts have signed up to a policy of eliminating mixed-sex accommodation. (They currently just “manage” this by allowing mixed-sex accommodation via a Stonewall interpretation of the word sex.)

And they can’t ignore 1992 Health and Safety regs.

Its also one thing to have lax safeguarding policies when you were ‘only following orders guv’, but another to try to circumvent Guidance from EHRC.

mumda · 18/04/2025 09:47

There are some stages they need to go through.

denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance

Some people on my Facebook have gone straight to anger. I'm reporting the posts as I see them

Those that are most entrenched have been most damaged by this nonsense and returning to a biological reality means acceptance they have done some horrific things to themselves or their loved ones.

Think how future generations will read about this. It'll be like the tulip madness.

GreenFriedTomato · 18/04/2025 09:48

Greyskybluesky · 18/04/2025 07:49

Absolutely agree. The silence would have been deafening.

While simultaneously loudly celebrating a huge joyful win for trans rights.

Greyskybluesky · 18/04/2025 09:49

EweSurname · 18/04/2025 09:42

Transwomen not wanting to change with men = they’re just trying to live their lives, completely fair, they need dignity, privacy comes first etc

women not wanting to change with men = “not everyone wants to have sex with you or see you with your bits out”

Absolutely this. They just cannot see it.

Assistantarchibald · 18/04/2025 09:50

Shortshriftandlethal · 18/04/2025 09:26

I suspect some committed trusts may attempt to get around the ruling by providing only universal mixed sex spaces with full length doors. Sarah Montague, on Radio 4 yesterday suggested that all spaces could be named 'gendered' spaces rather than sex based spaces, for example, to get around the 'problem'.

You couldn't make this shit up. Astonishing!

Except that as an employer they’re bound by the 1992 H&S Regulations that confer a legal requirement to provide single sex spaces. So for employees at least that’s a legal requirement.

Would they make all of the public toilets mixed sex? They’d have to still abide by building regs in that case where toilets have a wash basin within a fully enclosed toilet if mixed sex. Would be an expense to change all toilets to meet these requirements, can’t just change the door.

MissSmith80 · 18/04/2025 10:00

i just went back and read the email from my Trust yesterday - sounds almost identical. Sent on behalf of the LBGTQ network and shared by the womens network but as others have said, focussed on the impact on the feelings of the trans community.

We are either at the same trust or the same message being shared across many. I suspect the latter.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/04/2025 10:00

Shortshriftandlethal · 18/04/2025 09:26

I suspect some committed trusts may attempt to get around the ruling by providing only universal mixed sex spaces with full length doors. Sarah Montague, on Radio 4 yesterday suggested that all spaces could be named 'gendered' spaces rather than sex based spaces, for example, to get around the 'problem'.

You couldn't make this shit up. Astonishing!

But ‘gendered’ spaces have no basis in law, and it’s a term devoid of any clear meaning. If you have ‘gendered’ spaces, where does the nonbinary, agender, or gender-fluid person go?

whereas everyone has a sex. Something designated for ‘male’ or ‘female’ is fully inclusive of all members of that sex - they should be, in fact, truly ‘gender neutral’.

Shortshriftandlethal · 18/04/2025 10:08

ErrolTheDragon · 18/04/2025 10:00

But ‘gendered’ spaces have no basis in law, and it’s a term devoid of any clear meaning. If you have ‘gendered’ spaces, where does the nonbinary, agender, or gender-fluid person go?

whereas everyone has a sex. Something designated for ‘male’ or ‘female’ is fully inclusive of all members of that sex - they should be, in fact, truly ‘gender neutral’.

Yes, though I'm sure there will be many attempts to subvert and get around the ruling and I'm sure there will be barristers such as RMW and Jolyon Maugham who will try to find legal ways around it.

What is needed now is firm, legally sound, unequivocal guidance from the EHRC

UrinalCake · 18/04/2025 10:10

Assistantarchibald · 18/04/2025 09:50

Except that as an employer they’re bound by the 1992 H&S Regulations that confer a legal requirement to provide single sex spaces. So for employees at least that’s a legal requirement.

Would they make all of the public toilets mixed sex? They’d have to still abide by building regs in that case where toilets have a wash basin within a fully enclosed toilet if mixed sex. Would be an expense to change all toilets to meet these requirements, can’t just change the door.

You're right, but I'm not sure I'd be surprised if at least one of them attempted it.

Shortshriftandlethal · 18/04/2025 10:12

Calyx72 · 18/04/2025 09:51

My union / professional organisation has put this out: https://www.csp.org.uk/news/2025-04-17-csp-responds-equality-act-ruling (not NHS but lots of members work for NHS)

"The CSP is now reviewing the ruling, but we do not at this stage believe the judgment substantively changes either our practice advice or advice on transphobia"

This is suggestive, to me, that they still intend to uphold the use of sanctions and punishments for misgendering and failure to use pronouns etc

Hopefully, someone with a far more astute legal brain will soon be along to make clear the full implications and their true obligations.

Gettingbysomehow · 18/04/2025 10:13

We've had no messages whatsoever about this outcome. But the my trust is remote and not in a desperately woke area like Brighton.

Shortshriftandlethal · 18/04/2025 10:15

UrinalCake · 18/04/2025 10:10

You're right, but I'm not sure I'd be surprised if at least one of them attempted it.

Yes, committed activists will go to any expense...as witnessed when an activist headteacher at a school inmy city went to great lengths to have a new mixed sex toilet block built, complete with CCTV cameras to monitor misbehaviour.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/04/2025 10:16

Shortshriftandlethal · 18/04/2025 10:15

Yes, committed activists will go to any expense...as witnessed when an activist headteacher at a school inmy city went to great lengths to have a new mixed sex toilet block built, complete with CCTV cameras to monitor misbehaviour.

Bloody hell. So the taxpayer is going to have to foot the bill to sort out his illegal mess?

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