What does the SC ruling mean for schools and youth organisations?

[JellySaurus]

What does the SC ruling mean for schools and youth organisations?

Both for the children and for the employees and volunteers.

I’m wondering this too, about Girl Guiding

Hopefully they’ll have to be honest about being mixed sex now. Or even better, become single sex again.

Not a lot.

The judgment was clear that this does not mean that trans people have to be excluded from single sex spaces. But should someone want to set up a single sex space, they are legally entitled to do so.

Aren't certain spaces legally required to be single sex? Children's toilets and changing rooms, for example.

I think it has a direct impact on schools, though. Isn't it law that single sex toilets and changing rooms need to be provided for children older than 8? Does anyone have more insight?

This is why there is still a long way to go. Things that really should be quite simple are still shrouded in uncertainty.

I think realistically though this affects a small section of society. The largest effect will be on people who have been interpreting the law wrong

Trans people aren't excluded from single sex spaces - transwomen will need to use male toilets and transmen will use female toilets.

There is no uncertainty here - legal sex in the Equality Act has been clarified.

From Sex Matters: 'Groups for women and girls, such as Girlguiding, Women’s Institute and La Leche League, and for men and boys, such as Men’s Sheds and clubs for gay men.' - all protected by the Equality Act which was clarified yesterday.

Interesting times - I’ll be v interested to see what happens at the WI.

Groups are going to have to be honest about male inclusion, instead of the current TWAW wash.

I want to see how they are going to word their inclusion rules. We all know it’s mixed sex by the back door. However, I believe the consequence will be that if they want to include TW, they will have to include non TW aka men, otherwise it will be discriminatory to men.

I’ll be keeping an eye on the WI & Corp of London - Hampstead Swimming Ponds.

It means single sex is single sex not single gender.

A highly significant section of society!

We entrust our young people to others, expecting them to be kept safe. We also entrust our young people to others to educate them and socialise them. I hope that this ruling also means that schools and youth organisations can no longer be complicit in brainwashing our children to deny reality.

Except this may well lead to even more confusion than before (at least in the toilet example where you don’t apply for membership). I’m thinking here of both people who are gender non-conforming and trans people who are (for want of a much better way of putting it) ‘passing’. There are trans men who look far more physically intimidating than many men. What happens when they enter female spaces?
Regardless, given that both sex and gender reassignment remain protected characteristics there is clearly going to be a large amount of cases to test the limits of this (and indeed other areas where equal rights can come into conflict).
Even though I often disagree with people on here, surely we can all agree that this needs attention for all possible conflicts? (I can think of a few potential conflicts between religion and other protected characteristics for example).

There are trans men who look far more physically intimidating than many men.

In photos and carefully curated videos perhaps. In real life I've never met a transman who wasn't obviously a woman. No matter how masculine they present, their height, build, voice and walk are always markedly female and give them away immediately.

There are trans men who look far more physically intimidating than many men.

Really?

But (in my understanding) they don’t have to be single sex. It’s just that they can’t make the argument of “oh well we have to allow TW/TM, because of the equality act”.

Although, if the equality act refers to biological sex, if there a legal justification for allowing trans women, but not allowing other biological males? Can’t they argue they’re being unfairly excluded? Eg the parents of a boy who want him to join girl guides, can they say “well other biological boys are allowed, why not my son?” because by allowing trans girls, by definition they’re saying they aren’t using the single sex exemption?

There are less than 5,000 children (under 18s) who were referred to gender clinics in 20/21. Yes that might have increased slightly, but not by that much. So in practice, it won’t affect much. Whether the curriculum will change is another thing all together, and with the government in a precarious position it may well end up being changed.

Trans people aren’t excluded from single sex spaces. A transman is more than welcome in a women’s refuge, for example.

It's not going to be more confusing. I was in a loo with a transmen the other day - the old ladies did a quick second look but clearly she was a woman on testosterone.

Gender reassignment rightly protects trans people from discrimination - so you can't be excluded from getting a job as a trans person. Absolutely right.

But single sex spaces are just that. Gender doesn't count. Sex is binary.

They are single sex. The Equality Act has clarified that.

And this is the issue it’ll create - because while everyone is happy for trans women to go into male spaces, do women really want someone who presents as a man to be in their refuge,

If I’ve understood it right and the ruling included girls as well as women then the law is now clear. If girl guides are to continue to allow trans identified boys in, then it must not describe itself as solely for girls as to do so will mean all boys (trans identified or other) cannot join. If it doesn’t describe itself solely for girls (ie mixed sex) then they have to admit all boys that want to join, wether they be trans identified or not.

I am asking about children's environments.

Trans-identified adult women who have extensively body-modified with mastectomies and drugs are irrelevant to this discussion unless they are staff members.

The law has been clarified and schools and youth groups now need to assert children's right to single sex changing rooms and toilets. This ruling means they can no longer use the equality act as an excuse for not prioritising safeguarding. It also means they should withdraw any materials which state that sex is not binary/biological and promote the born in the wrong body ideology many have been gripped with. This gives parents the ideal
Opportunity to challenge their schools policy and teaching materials. It's a very important ruling for schools.

Girl means biological girl, woman means biological woman. So Girlguiding, Women's Institute - does what it says on the tin.

THANK YOU FOR WOMEN SCOTLAND!