Women's rights general conversations - Thread 10

[Kucinghitam]

Continuation of Thread 9.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions in the supermarket, grr"- that sort of thing).

I wasn't sure where or even if to post this

www.gov.uk/government/news/places-of-worship-warned-by-regulator-over-inflammatory-and-divisive-language

I didn't know the Charity Commission could do this

The regulator engaged with the trustees, who were unable to explain how the posts furthered the charity’s purposes for the public benefit.

Has there been anything similar for all the charities that have hosted abusive if not downright violent talk aimed at people who don't follow trans dogma?

It is an avenue that can be pursued.

Charities receive public money, for example, through exemption from paying corporation tax, VAT rebates, and Gift Aid, so they must comply with responsibilities under the Charities Act and comply with regulations governed by the Charity Commission.

Stonewall hasn’t posted on X since last year, but I’m sure they are on other sites and any images of hate banners could be reported.

I noticed Michael Foran's Twitter / Nitter page is down (probably temporarily), and I saw some of the women's rights Twixens discussing his view. There seems to be an (academic) debate about whether the current lawsuits and the academics, researchers and supporters are even going far enough.

There is a legal researcher called Alessandra Asteriti
https://nitter.poast.org/AlessandraAster/status/1951154857999843509#m

If you google her, you'll see she was a professor in Europe (and she says in UK, too), thus should know a few things about the law.
She's criticising Michael Foran in the above tweet, and in other posts on her timeline you can see also Helen Joyce and Maya Forstater being adressed.

Her main point is that the careful language about "gender critical belief" is still giving in to TRA and ceding the point that there are different beliefs, but in an area where the science is so clear, that you might as well discuss the earth being flat. Others are of course free to have different beliefs, but the main angle is how far this belief translates into laws that affect everyone else (I don't mean the psychological research about gender and sex, but the main point about sex as binary).

It's as if believing the earth is flat converts into hindering anyone from going more than 200km away from their home lest they fall over the edge.

The quote Asteriti reposted from Foran might be from a specific context, which I don't know. Thus I'm careful to judge that on its own. Additionally, anyone taking part in the discussion, giving the general political climate in the past decade, would be careful about what they say as an expert in public. I see this kind of language about "belief" as a step forward from before (esp. the Forstater case) and not as final conclusion. Foran was likely trying to avoid prejudice towards one group (rightly so) and focus on the legal side only.

Ms. Asteriti was mentioned in a thread a while ago, too, about repealing the GRA:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5224792-5224792-wdi-uk-safeguarding-campaign-end-sex-falsification-repeal-gra

(first post, more towards the end)

nitter.poast.org/AlessandraAster

Re M Foran, others offer the explanation that the accout deactivation was a planned break for writing anyways, and has nothing to do with the disagreements.
https://nitter.poast.org/quineofthenorth/status/1950856472289579264#m

some other posts by Ms Asteriti about having made points earlier which where later repeated by "more reputable" people (often men, it seems) while she was attacked for them first, makes me wonder what is going on between contributors to the debate.

https://nitter.poast.org/AlessandraAster/status/1951934103005077800#m

https://nitter.poast.org/AlessandraAster/status/1945931793539956879#m

and a disagreement with Sex Matters (though others interfere and suggest things are not as extreme as she is reading them):

https://nitter.poast.org/AlessandraAster/status/1951254077045669958#m

I am mainly curious about a) whether any of that is actually true and b) do the disagreements divide the opposition (classic tactic) or will this help to clear the way in the long run as it's of course important to debate about definitions and clear language.
I had the impression that many groups like SM, FWS, freelance academics and activists and others cooperate and coordinate their work, but seeing this I wonder whether behind the scenes there are still disagreements.

Instant justice.

https://youtube.com/shorts/qNJAvYBZMaI?si=SYn-J3HnEPvd-5VF

Bad ass, I love it!

Just seen this

https://youtube.com/shorts/z7cSi9civ5g?si=vFQk_hlE7bKGRDdT

With a few tweaks it could be a transwoman talking. Imagine how ridiculous it would be though if he insisted on being transgeorgian and everyone else had to go along with it or be a bigoted hate criminal.

For the record I think he looks amazing and he seems very talented.

Were their coats really that snug?

For the record I think he looks amazing and he seems very talented.

He does indeed.

That's a bit too snug. The back fits well, but it shouldn't be pulling on the button like that.

Jolly good for someone self taught, but I suspect he fitted it without the waistcoat and didn't allow the extra for that.

I rather liked the tip of the hat at the beginning of that video!

Fascinating. Thank you for sharing. And he’s right, there isn’t much flamboyance in men’s clothing. It’s lovely he has found a way of expressing himself in a way that suits him and doesn’t damage anyone else - or de-man him (I.e. he is still very much male and a man, just dressed differently - and he is comfortable with that). I agree - very talented, looks amazing and has a very healthy attitude.

No, it takes nothing from anyone else, he brings a bit of joy and colour to other people.
I’ve sometimes wondered when watching birds, in the dimorphic species it’s always the male which is - obviously! - the peacock. There may be good reasons why if the female of that species does more of the brooding and rearing she should be less showy. But modern western human society… makes no sense who ‘can’ or ‘should’ be decorative.

I've been looking at traditional cossack clothing for both sexes. It can have beautiful intricate embroidery, braiding, bright colours, and smocking. The male garb has wide belts or sashes, enormous trousers sometimes worn with long robes that could be described as dress-like. They look amazing. 😍

Over-snug clothes for men seem to be A Thing at the moment - tailored suits with really narrow sleeves and legs and jackets that barely close with just one button. The obnoxious Conor McGregor wears them.

I think it's supposed to signal 'Look at me I'm so big and manly that clothes can't contain my big manly musculature' but to me it looks like they're still trying to get value out of their Confirmation suits😁

Always makes me think their feet must unscrew because they'll never get them down those drainpipes.

The Alexei Sayle look is never a good one.

What was the deletion?

It seems some shitty cartoon that the same poster has been trailing across numerous threads.

Ah, OK. Clearly I have been missing a lot recently!

Maybe I am, in fact, a man - and a very On Trend one at that, if your fashion analysis is correct. I do have a few rather snug jackets…

Is this a chicken or a...twerkey?

You find the strangest .gifs on MN.

My eyes!!!🫣

No warning too!

wtf did you do that for, cake?😂

in totally unrelated news, I’m definitely having beef for Xmas this year.