Men urged to ‘stop using prostitutes’ as MPs debate modern slavery

[IwantToRetire]

Sarah Russell said a “significant” number of women are brought to the UK under false pretences before being forced to work in the sex industry.

“If I could say one thing, I really, really wish that men – and it is predominantly men – would stop using prostitutes, could you just stop?

“Because the number of women who are being brought to the UK under false pretences, believing that they’re going to do a different form of work and are then put to sex work against their will … kept in physically confined situations, which they’re not allowed to leave, and having had their passports taken away from them is really, really significant.

“The other thing that happens is that some women, who come here knowing that that might be an element of their work, if they then complain about it or want to stop, are told that their children back home will be harmed if they do, so are unable to go to the police when they are being systematically raped.

“So please, please, men, stop using prostitutes.”

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/jess-phillips-russell-home-office-mps-men-b1219328.html

Also this:

Jess Phillips said the Overseas Domestic Work visa, which allows workers to come to the UK with their employers for six months, was “servitude”.
https://www.perspectivemedia.com/minister-keeping-keen-eye-on-visa-that-allows-wealthy-to-bring-staff-to-uk/

There have been so many stories about how women trapped in this "servitude" are exploited, abused and isolated.

Thank you for posting this, but god it's so depressing.

I mean that men need this pointing out and that women are still in the position that we have to ask nicely. Women have fuck all power at all.

What's really depressing is that I'm reading this thinking that it's a big win that this is being clearly labelled a man problem, rather than ”ministers warn of serious health risk posed to honest hardworking Brits by wave of filthy migrant sex workers" or some such bullshit.

It is good that this is being recognised as a man problem, but any man who thinks it’s acceptable to buy sex is clearly a pathetic misogynist wanker with a complete lack of morals and no respect for women - so I’m not optimistic about them stopping just because they’re asked to.

The fact that there are so many women being trafficked means it’s not just a few bad eggs using them either.

Who are these men?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5302924-to-be-upset-a-brothel-has-opened-next-door-to-my-childs-school?page=1

Bit of a debate going on over here about prostitution atm. I've just put a link to that article although I think all prostitution is rape not just raping trafficked women.

They’re men like my BiL. Senior executive with a professional career. Long marriage and lovely family destroyed when it came out that he has been using prostitutes for decades. Seems to have started with streetwalkers and massage parlours and graduated to sugar babies and fetishes. Completely unrepentant, he understands that “some people disapprove” but so what? He’s utterly shameless and the thought that he might stop because someone asked him to is laughably naive.

Agree with @Kissedbyfire1 Normal every day men that we all know. A former boyfriend came back from a boys weekend in Copenhagen and described how two of the men in the group had gone to a brothel 'before going on to a bar' and it was all 'a completely normal commercial service.' He hadn't, obviously !

When I pointed that no woman would put herself in that situation willingly, he shrugged and said some women liked using their natural talents so they didn't have to work.😡

I dumped him there & then. No chance I was getting any closer after that. Just grim.

I understand the sentiment but talk about a simplistic plea

I don't think it's as mentally difficult to get to a place where it seems ok as people might think.

There are so many other things in our society that support the kind of ideas that make it easy.

Many people believe that sex is not a big deal, just an unimportant leisure activity with no special moral implications.

Sex is already commodified up the yin yang, right up to and including wealthy and famous actors getting their kit of and pretending to have sex for an audience.

There are a lot of people who have been taught to believe that a sex life is a necessity to be healthy and happy.

We are used to many of our everyday products being from shady sources where we know there is a good chance workers and the environment are being exploited - or really, we are good at not thinking about this too much so we don't become to uncomfortable when spending on that we don't really need.

A lot of people have also been taught that it's retrograde to be against "sex work".

In the end I think a lot of these men manage not to think too much about the issues.

I think many men just want to have sex, that's where they start from, the justification works backwards from that.

It's like asking 'please, please, men - stop raping' - what should sound ridiculous is not the simplistic plea, but the idea that one half of the human race abuses the other half, and makes it seem normal.

It should be simply unthinkable.

Hear me out, has Sarah Russell consulted with sexworkers if they want their number of clients reduced? How many did she consult with?

I think the whole point being made is that some cannot 'consult' at all. And therefore the others do not get a say.

The only way it will stop if it is made illegal to pay for sex and their names are made public when prosecuted. And even that won’t stop them all.

It hasn't stopped in any nordic model country, it just makes it more violent as both sexworkers and clients need to take extra measures to avoid being caught (this involves not carrying or storing condoms and meeting in more secluded locations). It's also very difficult to get convictions for as sexworkers are unwilling to testify against their clients.

N. Ireland four years after the Nordic Model was introduced- no decrease in sexwork but increased violence and stigma against sexworkers.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230618235135/www.swarmcollective.org/blog/2019/9/20/nordic-model-in-northern-ireland-a-total-failure-no-decrease-in-sex-work-but-increases-in-violence-and-stigma" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20230618235135/www.swarmcollective.org/blog/2019/9/20/nordic-model-in-northern-ireland-a-total-failure-no-decrease-in-sex-work-but-increases-in-violence-and-stigma

In Nordic Model ROI in 2022, only 1 man was convicted of paying for sex. The sentence was to give a donation to the court of his choice:

archive.ph/IvYFn

A report by the UN HIV and the Law Commission on Nordic Model Sweden. No decrease in sexwork, more violence, less funding for social services as attempting to police the NM law is expensive, and sexworkers unwilling to testify against clients. Out of the first 2,000 arrests for paying for sex there were just 2 convictions. Sentence was a small fine.

A quarter of a century after Sweden introduced the Nordic Model, a 5 second Google search for escorts in Sweden reveals the sex industry is very much alive and well.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230618234752/hivlawcommission.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/FinalReport-RisksRightsHealth-EN.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20230618234752/hivlawcommission.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/FinalReport-RisksRightsHealth-EN.pdf p38

tl-dr- the Nordic Model is expensive, almost impossible to effectively enforce and increases violence.

I understand the sentiment but talk about a simplistic plea

I wonder how many where attening the debate, and not having listened to a recording, it might be different dependent on how angry she sounded.

But either was I suspect that a statement like that has not been made in Parliament before. Normally it is all about the women who have somehow put themselves in a not very nice situation.

It isn't as far as know, the problem is men.

Also this:
Jess Phillips said the Overseas Domestic Work visa, which allows workers to come to the UK with their employers for six months, was “servitude”.
^ https://www.perspectivemedia.com/minister-keeping-keen-eye-on-visa-that-allows-wealthy-to-bring-staff-to-uk/^
There have been so many stories about how women trapped in this "servitude" are exploited, abused and isolated.

I added this to the OP because I am amazed this is still allowed.

Even it there is a tiny % where domestic workers actually want it, the basis on which they are in the UK (only in relation to their employer) has all too often led, particularly for women to horrendous abuse.

https://uklabourlawblog.com/2022/04/06/trapped-in-cycles-of-exploitation-the-uk-overseas-domestic-worker-visa-10-years-on-by-virginia-mantouvalou-and-natalie-sedacca/

There was a thread a while ago about an amazing group of women who helped women escape this situation of dependency.

Although I can remember years ago an American woman who I bumped into occassionally, and she was in the UK on what she said was a "Foreign Mistress Visa"!

"could you just stop?"
Reminds me of Dworkin's request for men to give us 24 hours free from rape.
Of course it's never going to happen, but recognising that shifts your perspective.

I don't have many men in my life. Just my housemate who is like a brother, his friend and one other guy I met travelling years ago and have kept in touch with.
I have discovered that they ALL use prostitutes. Some more than others
Their reasons range from 'they don't want a relationship', they dont like dating, they would have to 'pay' for dates anyway with no guarantee of sex, that their ex wives cost them much more, no chance of getting accused of rape and so on.
I wasn't surprised about my housemate's friend because he's a repulsive creep anyway. But my travelling friend? I was so disgusted and disappointed. I actually thought he was cool but I've lost all respect for him now. I just think are you that desperate for sex you'll pay for it?.just have a wank ffs. What's even worse is they all seem to think they are doing these women a favour as opposed to exploiting them. And that they only use their 'services because the women offer them..Not the other way round. They're all very different men, but the one thing they have in common is a dim view of women in general Genuinely makes my stomach churn

just have a wank ffs

This! It's what the rest of us (decent men and most women) do because we can't fathom the idea of wanting sex with someone who is only putting up with us because they need our money. We know we're not entitled to use other people that way.
It's the patriarchy again, training us from birth to eroticise domination as masculinity. Johns believe they must wiggle into someone else's orifices and ejaculate there to feel like real men, and that access to women's bodies is their birthright.
But they need porn to stimulate their desire. What would happen if men had to rely on their imaginations the way women do?

I think if we ever brought back the pillory, it should be for men who pay for sex. They deserve open humiliation.

Yes, we are all wildly aware you’re an apologist for the sex trade, which destroys women’s lives worldwide.

How excitingly progressive of you.

You’re in favour of prostitution, I am all astonishment.

That’s what I was thinking.