Men urged to ‘stop using prostitutes’ as MPs debate modern slavery

[IwantToRetire]

Sarah Russell said a “significant” number of women are brought to the UK under false pretences before being forced to work in the sex industry.

“If I could say one thing, I really, really wish that men – and it is predominantly men – would stop using prostitutes, could you just stop?

“Because the number of women who are being brought to the UK under false pretences, believing that they’re going to do a different form of work and are then put to sex work against their will … kept in physically confined situations, which they’re not allowed to leave, and having had their passports taken away from them is really, really significant.

“The other thing that happens is that some women, who come here knowing that that might be an element of their work, if they then complain about it or want to stop, are told that their children back home will be harmed if they do, so are unable to go to the police when they are being systematically raped.

“So please, please, men, stop using prostitutes.”

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/jess-phillips-russell-home-office-mps-men-b1219328.html

Also this:

Jess Phillips said the Overseas Domestic Work visa, which allows workers to come to the UK with their employers for six months, was “servitude”.
https://www.perspectivemedia.com/minister-keeping-keen-eye-on-visa-that-allows-wealthy-to-bring-staff-to-uk/

There have been so many stories about how women trapped in this "servitude" are exploited, abused and isolated.

The problem is, you can only humiliate someone if they are capable of feeling shame. The abuse of women is so normalised amongst so many boys and men that, as PPs have pointed out, they think nothing of admitting it.

'Yes, I pay for sex. So do all my mates. It's the oldest profession. The girls are getting paid, no-one forced them. So what's wrong with that?'

How do you even start a rational discussion with that? We are not transmitting on the same frequency as them. They only hear irritating women's lib static.

I don't condone violence, obviously, but faced with the extent of violence and abuse against women and girls, and how it is so easily normalised by men,
I often think of the words of one of Edna O'Brien's characters:
The vote means nothing to women. We should be armed.

cramptramp · Yesterday 23:50

The only way it will stop if it is made illegal to pay for sex and their names are made public when prosecuted. And even that won’t stop them all.

I agree strongly with that.

That’s a very good point, sadly.

Some might be too scared to carry on using them because getting caught and prosecuted would mean possible divorce etc and they’d have a criminal record. Worth a shot imo.

DH has retrained into in a trade and has told me how shocked he is at how widespread it is for his co-workers to pay for sex when staying away. They think nothing of it at all - like going for a McDonalds. Grim.

It’s so predictable isn’t it?

My exh for one. They're just normal, married men. Husbands, fathers, brothers... That's what is so depressing. They're nothing unusual.

Maybe they should look at why women and men feel the need to sell their body.

I wrote about this on another thread but I watched an interview with a retired police officer who said that in his area that based on his experience, there were men in every fourth household with a sexual interest in children. His work involved categorising the levels of sexual crimes committed against children in his area.

Women really significantly minimise the harm men’s out of control, dysfunctional, unhealthy tastes in sex have on both women and children. Men get away with it completely so it is nearly impossible to police.

Yes, this is what I find so revolting. That some men I know order prostitutes in the same casual way that they order an Uber fast food delivery. It's nothing to them

It's supply and demand. To get rid of it, you have to remove the demand side of the equation.

Because supply is created as a response to demand.

So that means a cultural change where punters are viewed with disdain and disgust. It needs to become socially utterly unacceptable a thing to do, to pay for sex.

But currently the shame is all on the supply side, very little shame on punters / demand side.

Because we live in a male dominated world.

I’ve had an argument with a male housemate in the past about this, and his argument was “but plenty of women choose this work”. What on earth could I have said to this?!! I was so angry and flabbergasted that I sat there seething and couldn’t speak, so he sadly thought he’d made a winning point.

I mean, it will make naff all difference, but I applaud her for sending the message 'men, this is YOUR fault and YOUR doing and YOUR responsibility to fix' instead of just handwringing about how awful it all is. It's gladdened my heart to hear men being asked to change their behaviour for once. It's a start

'I’ve had an argument with a male housemate in the past about this, and his argument was “but plenty of women choose this work'.

What a smug little plum he is. Why on earth would anyone make the 'choice' to invite violent, repulsive, smelly, dirty, sickening individuals to use their body as they wish? Why would anyone 'choose' to make themselves that vulnerable? But it's very convenient for some people to tell themselves that some prostitutes are doing it to make a fortune and for the LOLs. Pathetic

It’s so gross that it even exists. But it has existed since the dawn of time so depressingly it feels a permanent feature of life.

I'm in favour of harm reduction and decriminalisation. The approach which is safest for sexworkers both regarding physical safety and their rights. For example in Sweden sexworkers cannot rent property, are less likely to carry condoms because they are used as evidence, still can't legally work together for safety, can be investigated by Social Services for "self harm" and in Sweden can be legally discriminated against when going out if bouncers think they "look like a prostitute" (see below). Nordic Model France has seen many sexworkers murdered because nervous clients wanted the meeting to take place in more secluded locations.

A pub in Central Sweden refused entry to several women "because they might be prostitutes for looking Asian" (they weren't). They took the pub to court, the judge decided in favour of the pub and congratulated them for doing their efforts to try and stop prostitution. Turns out even though they weren't sexworkers at all the police had received info that "Asian prostitutes were operating in the area" which gave justification for the pub to refuse entry to any women looking Asian. So yeah, the Nordic Model also harms women who aren't sexworkers if they look Asian.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230618235559/www.thelocal.se/20130912/50200" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20230618235559/www.thelocal.se/20130912/50200

Decriminalisation is advocated for by Amnesty Int, Global Alliance Against Traffic in Women; Global Commission on HIV and the Law; Human Rights Watch; UNAIDS; the UN Special Rapporteur on the Right to Health; HIV Scotland, STOPAIDS, anti-trafficking orgs, sex worker orgs and the World Health Organization.

Archived links seem to be broken by Mumsnet's formatting, try this one:

https://www.thelocal.se/20130912/50200

Good it’s a start

I am reminded that those in authority labelled many of the grooming gang victims as prostitutes so that they could ignore the problem and give the illusion that the victims were consenting to the abuse.

But we know what many of the MPs talking in the debate think about that scandal.

Public attitudes to sex work are part of this.

Men's sex drive is differernt than most women's, we can see that there is a real differernce, men don't make a living as male prostitutes with women for clients.

But if society tells people it's fine, legal and normal, a heck of a lot of people will never really question that. For many people, what is legal is the same as what is ok, and that's really as far as their analysis of life goes 99% of the time.

In fact I'd say in general there is an attitude in our society that if something is legal, it's up to our personal views whether we should do it or not, and it's wrong to o,pose our personal morality on others.

The sexual revolution also has a lot to answer for here, and our view of healthy sexual expression. Because if it's ok for women to choose to strip off on camera for money, and it's ok for women to shag 100 men in a night she's never met before, and being critical of these things not only makes you a prude but against women's rights to bodily autonomy, it becomes very difficult to say it's not ok to shag those 100 men for pay.

I just don't find it at all hard to believe, given our other social messaging about sex, that a lot of people and a lot of men don't really think twice about it.

😟

Your brother, your cousin, your colleague - that's who.

I have come across this sex positive attitude on other threads, and if you dare oppose it, suggest it is not ok to strip off on camera etc you not only get labelled a prude etc but get abused for saying it and for suggesting that women (and men) shouldn't do just whatever they like whoever it harms.
Depressing.

Real Men Don’t Buy Girls was a campaign started by Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher in 2011. 14 years ago. Men who want to use sex workers don’t care or listen.

You can make buying sex illegal, and selling someone else for sex illegal as well. The Nordic model criminalises punters and pimps, but not the prostituted women, for whom exit strategies are also offered.