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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scottish parliament live: Tess White asks Scottish Government whether it will review public sector guidance on single-sex spaces

34 replies

ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 14:21

Coming up this afternoon, here's the link:

https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/meeting-of-the-parliament-march-18-2025

Meeting of the Parliament | Scottish Parliament TV

https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/meeting-of-the-parliament-march-18-2025

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ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 14:26

In light of concerns about Care Inspectorate and Prison Service.

SA Somerville : New guidance refers to EA. Recently completed consultation on codes of practise, explains EA. Yet to be published.

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ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 14:28

[Massive paraphrasing]

TW: Quotes from guidance re children in care.

SA S: that's for the EHRC to concern itself with

TW: Ludicrous and chilling statement from the regulator that is suppose to protect children. Massive safeguarding issues. Scottish Prison Service allowing Trans id prison officers to perform intimate searches of visitors. Violent men can still be housed in female prison estate. Will gov lay down the law and tell them to withdraw guidance to allow rights of male individuals to transcend those of women and girls?

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ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 14:29

SA Somerville: New rules from SPS in 2023, law states 106 in rules - consent is required for searching. Rules 103, officer of same 'gender' as visitor.

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ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 14:30

Ash Regan: Another breach of women and girls' human rights. Girls in care and women in prison.Gov is promoting illegal and illiterate gender based policy.

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ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 14:31

SA Somerville: Gov supports single sex exemptions. Guidance published by EHRC is v important. Looks forward to updated code of practise.

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ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 14:31

So, government stance is now to buck-pass to EHRC.

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334bu · 18/03/2025 14:43

Usual waffle from S A Somerville.

ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 15:00

Also on today was this:

https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/finance-and-public-administration-committee-march-18-2025

The Finance and Public Administration Committee Committee taking evidence from Permanent Secretary John-Paul Marks.

Michelle Thomson (SNP MSP) has questions on Scotgov workplace policies based on self-identification and 'overreach'.

John-Paul Marks, Permanent Secretary: Over 50% of civil service are women.

MT: What groups are there to represent women?

JPM: Staff networks ... gender interests, women's interests.

MT: I assume one is Women's Dev Network? Is it in public domain that WDN allows for men to self ID as women?

Civil service bod: That's our trans network, we are inclusive.

I'll let the Express take over from this point:

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-governments-women-development-network-34884520

Scottish Government's 'Women Development Network' is open to men in self-ID row

The SNP Executive's top civil servant JP Marks was grilled about whether he was accountable for the government potentially breaking the law by not offering single-sex facilities, and allowing men to self-identify as women to access them.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-governments-women-development-network-34884520

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ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 15:09

CLARIFICATION: Sorry, typing in haste:

Civil service bod: That's RELATED TO our trans network, we are inclusive.

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SinnerBoy · 18/03/2025 15:14

ArabellaScott · Today 14:29

SA Somerville: New rules from SPS in 2023, law states 106 in rules - consent is required for searching. Rules 103, officer of same 'gender' as visitor.

Hmm. So if she doesn't want to be mauled by a TIM, she's either going to have life made difficult by being branded transphobic, or they'll throw her out, for "Refusing to be searched."

They've made it lose - lose, haven't they?

ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 15:15

Busy day in Scotparl!

There was also an Equalities Committee meeting, it seems, but I can't find a record of it on the website. Contributions from Kaukab 'Decapitate Terfs' Stewart, Maggie Chapman, Tess White, Pam Gosal.

Thread from Lucy Hunter Blackburn:

x.com/LucyHunterB/status/1901966025920319880

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ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 15:16

SinnerBoy · 18/03/2025 15:14

ArabellaScott · Today 14:29

SA Somerville: New rules from SPS in 2023, law states 106 in rules - consent is required for searching. Rules 103, officer of same 'gender' as visitor.

Hmm. So if she doesn't want to be mauled by a TIM, she's either going to have life made difficult by being branded transphobic, or they'll throw her out, for "Refusing to be searched."

They've made it lose - lose, haven't they?

Yes, this point was made in articles about the rule. It's not fair on vulnerable women to put them in this position.

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ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 15:17

A standing ovation to all the fierce women working so bloody hard to keep this on the agenda. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Not just bravery, it's the tenacity that counts.

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TheOtherRaven · 18/03/2025 16:33

SinnerBoy · 18/03/2025 15:14

ArabellaScott · Today 14:29

SA Somerville: New rules from SPS in 2023, law states 106 in rules - consent is required for searching. Rules 103, officer of same 'gender' as visitor.

Hmm. So if she doesn't want to be mauled by a TIM, she's either going to have life made difficult by being branded transphobic, or they'll throw her out, for "Refusing to be searched."

They've made it lose - lose, haven't they?

However it's phrased and however it's dressed up in nice figleafs like 'same gender' it always equals the same thing - men get to do what they want and women get to submit or else.

On a binary, sexed basis.

And when I say 'men' - well, decent men don't treat other people's boundaries, feelings and equalities like this, so draw your own conclusion about the kind of man who is willing to take advantage of this mess and coercively control and handle a woman for their own gratification. The woman will have no idea whether that gratification is a validation of identity or something entirely carnal, but it's not like to her it matters when the man's hands are on her body against her will and to her distress and she has no choice but to let him.

This is despicable cowardice. This is assault. To try to avoid facing up to it by a lot of word salad and buck passing makes it worse. If the Scots govt are fully in favour of men being permitted to assault non consenting women with the women under threat of punishment for daring to question never mind resist, then they can stand up and own it. And justify it.

It is not because they believe those men are women. It cannot be when they are dividing who has rights and who doesn't on a binary sexed basis. They know exactly what the sex is of everyone in the situation.

ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 16:44

TheOtherRaven · 18/03/2025 16:33

However it's phrased and however it's dressed up in nice figleafs like 'same gender' it always equals the same thing - men get to do what they want and women get to submit or else.

On a binary, sexed basis.

And when I say 'men' - well, decent men don't treat other people's boundaries, feelings and equalities like this, so draw your own conclusion about the kind of man who is willing to take advantage of this mess and coercively control and handle a woman for their own gratification. The woman will have no idea whether that gratification is a validation of identity or something entirely carnal, but it's not like to her it matters when the man's hands are on her body against her will and to her distress and she has no choice but to let him.

This is despicable cowardice. This is assault. To try to avoid facing up to it by a lot of word salad and buck passing makes it worse. If the Scots govt are fully in favour of men being permitted to assault non consenting women with the women under threat of punishment for daring to question never mind resist, then they can stand up and own it. And justify it.

It is not because they believe those men are women. It cannot be when they are dividing who has rights and who doesn't on a binary sexed basis. They know exactly what the sex is of everyone in the situation.

It struck me while listening to the civil servant whiffle on about being kind and inclusive that up until right about now they have not for one tiny second considered being kind and inclusive to women. Only the special men with marginalised feelings.

Realisation must now be dawning that they are obliged to consider women as humans who also must be included. I hope it's a hard realisation.

I hope.the very clearly spelled out legal risks and financial implications are dazzlingly clear.

They cannot prioritise the wants of men and dismiss the rights of women. A reckoning is coming.

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Waitwhat23 · 18/03/2025 16:54

Shirley Anne Sommerville. Ugh. One of the biggest cheerleaders for the GRR. I wouldn't trust her to take a pot off the heat after the oven timer had gone, let alone trust her to do her job competently.

Just, ugh.

Waitwhat23 · 18/03/2025 16:56

ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 15:17

A standing ovation to all the fierce women working so bloody hard to keep this on the agenda. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Not just bravery, it's the tenacity that counts.

Edited

Agreed. As well as the superb FWS, MBM, SWRN et al, there have been several tenacious and outstanding MSP's who will not let this be swept under the carpet, Tess White and Russell Findlay being the two which come to my mind at the moment.

TheOtherRaven · 18/03/2025 17:04

ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 16:44

It struck me while listening to the civil servant whiffle on about being kind and inclusive that up until right about now they have not for one tiny second considered being kind and inclusive to women. Only the special men with marginalised feelings.

Realisation must now be dawning that they are obliged to consider women as humans who also must be included. I hope it's a hard realisation.

I hope.the very clearly spelled out legal risks and financial implications are dazzlingly clear.

They cannot prioritise the wants of men and dismiss the rights of women. A reckoning is coming.

This. ^^

They cannot be allowed to fudge the sheer, blatant, misogynistic sexism of this.

It is not about 'being kind'. There is nothing 'kind' or even basically moral about enabling a man to abuse a woman and silencing her for him.

ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 17:18

TheOtherRaven · 18/03/2025 17:04

This. ^^

They cannot be allowed to fudge the sheer, blatant, misogynistic sexism of this.

It is not about 'being kind'. There is nothing 'kind' or even basically moral about enabling a man to abuse a woman and silencing her for him.

It might be wishful thinking, but sometines I think I see these people trying to defend the rights of men to use women and I swear I see the cognitive dissonance fighting it's way across their facial expression.

See also Carla Denyer last week.

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ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 19:07

And it's too late to fix the apostrophe, now. Thanks, auto-cock.

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SinnerBoy · 18/03/2025 19:23

Yeah yeah!

😄

ArabellaScott · 18/03/2025 19:39

Here's the Herald with a good write up on all of today's events:

www.heraldscotland.com/news/25018496.scottish-government-fire-single-sex-space-policy/

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SinnerBoy · 18/03/2025 20:28

It's interesting that the possessive its doesn't have a possessive apostrophe, isn't it?

And thanks for the article. Weasel words in there, saying that visitors can only be made to doff coats, hats and gloves, with no mention of pat / rub downs.

EvelynBeatrice · 18/03/2025 20:28

Nothing on BBC Scotland online news about this that I could see. I keep an eye on how frequently such matters are not covered.