UCU being taken to tribunal over discrimination for 'gc' views

[ArabellaScott]

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/gender-critical-documentary-makers-take-ucu-tribunal

The filmmakers of 'Adult Human Female' are taking UCU to tribunal.

I'll try to find an archive copy.

Thanks for the heads up, I too wonder who the mysterious benefactors might be? 🤨 I'm glad they don't have to deal with the stress of funding their fight, on top of the stress of having to fight. Good luck to them.

I dont know the exact laws but it will be due to the union being paid by a member to act as her/his agent in discussions and disputes with their employer.

The employment tribunl is a lower court specialising in employment law which is why rulings get deferred if referred upwards on points of law or error over applying law to specific facts.

There will be instances where union has agreed X or Y which if fine for 99 of the workers but screws 1. The 100 union members vote and pass the motion. Effectvely the 1 has a new contract T&C which the union signes on her/his behalf.

So it makes sense to streamline the single employee dispute into the ET to determine if the union has the right to bind the employee into the contract with the employer ( employees T&C changed plus job maybe at risk)

Eg an employer recognises the union, the union acts as a block voice for collective bargining to set pay and condition ie a pay rise of £10 /hr and soft blue sofas in the breakroom both conditions are enforcable by the courts.

So the union decision had effectively given the womens employer a blank cheque to disadvantage their gc members without putting the specific event (the film) through any type of democratic process.

I see what you mean and thanks for that explanation @AnSolas

I haven't seen anything specific about whether we can watch this case but these instructions from the Sandy Peggie case seem general enough that they should work if anything does.
ETA ok, so I looked, but the list doesn't seem to go far enough out yet, unless I didn't find the right list. Previously I think we've been told to email just a few days in advance, e.g. Thursday for a thing starting on Monday? So probably not yet, anyway.

donationsMakeMeFeelBetter · 25/01/2025 12:42

By the way, I went looking for information about what judge will be hearing the case. I didn't find it, but after registering(!) at www.courtserve.net I was able to download a .rtf file (!!) which listed the case, and it says at the top:
"Requests from the media and members of the public to observe a hearing remotely should be made in advance to [email protected] to allow for inclusion during the hearing set-up. The naming convention in the subject heading of the email request should read "MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST - AN Other v AN Other - Hearing Date." "
So for people wanting access, that's more precise info about exactly how to request it, if one wants to be precisely correct.

I enjoyed this from Naomi's profile:

Naomi also blogs regularly on the law at www.legalfeminist.org.uk. Her blog post on preparing a decent hearing bundle has been described by some (who should perhaps get out more) as “life-changing”.

Thank you, @ArabellaScott .

Can't believe there's yet another tribunal. I was also somewhat worried to read this in the Times (with share token https://www.thetimes.com/article/fb00faf3-a43c-42d9-9a6a-6abfbbd6ae67?shareToken=dc31c7b3b5890380f9c2e8c2e89425f3), suggesting that ever more cases could be heading that way, following introduction of more employee rights - yet it can take more than 2 years to get to a tribunal in some parts of the country. (The events in Sandie Peggie's tribunal occurred about 2 years ago, didn't they, and yet delays and messing about releasing evidence used up even more time! The events which led to this union tribunal, and also the one this week against the Met Police, took place ages ago, too.)

Despite various GC wins, perhaps tribunals are just too distant a prospect for employers (and too expensive and time-consuming to be accessible for employees) to actually make the difference they should, especially as first-tier tribunals don't set a precedent.

Sorry that's a depressing post!

Good for them. I’m an academic and it is a worry that, should I get hauled over the coals for being GC the UCU will probably be casting the first stone. As others have said, this is disadvantaging me for holding legal views. I hope they win and that the UCU and every other union learn from this

Dont want to derail the thread re court case, but isn't this the film that was heavily promoted by WPUK and many thought was a complete rip off of the campaign and work of KJK by film makers who suddently set themselves up as GC campaigners.

Or am I confusing it with something else?

NB which doesn't mean I dont think the legal challenge should go ahead.

Thanks for pointing me to the film. It was really powerful.

As to the poster immediately above mine, I don't know who KJK is, but even if the film makers have ripped off someone, the women speaking are most definitely GC and anything which helps to promote these views is a good thing.

As for the cancel culture, prevalent in Universities etc. surely the answer is for the TWAW brigade to make their own film putting their case? The problem will come of course, when they can't actually say anything convincing. E.g. Dr Upton made himself look a complete prat when he talked about sex being a nebulous dog whistle.

As to the poster immediately above mine, I don't know who KJK is, but even if the film makers have ripped off someone, the women speaking are most definitely GC and anything which helps to promote these views is a good thing.

I think it is as much about the usual suspects rushing in and claiming to be the originator of this very powerful statement that challenged the trans narrative.

As well as the fact that the marketing material also copied Kelly Jay Keene / Posie Parker of Let Women Speak, by women who had been happy to slag her off as being right wing, blah, blah, blah.

Sometimes it would just be nice to respect other women, rather than appropriate their work to self promote themselves.

Yes, I think it was. IIRC when it came out KJK said they'd ripped off her 'trademark' adult human female slogan. The film-makers denied that categorically and said they'd had no idea it was her thing. One of the people in the film is Judith Green of WPUK and lots of the others are lefties, so I think KJK associated the film with WPUK but that was also denied by the film-makers. I've watched the film and I think it's wonderful, and so what if KJK had the idea of using the dictionary definition 'adult human female' first, the more people get the idea that a woman is an adult human female out there, the better.

the UCU is a professional body that is supposed to be a union working directly for its members.

Yeah, except it doesn’t. UCU works for itself and anyone who doesn’t agree with their “correct think” - our very good pensions aren’t good enough, it should be acceptable for professional services staff for be hunted down for being GC - are on their own, as far as UCU are concerned. I’ve had a run in with my university’s branch and the hysterical hyperbole was matched only by how little they care about anyone who doesn’t toe the line.

They can go fuck themselves.

@SidewaysOtter Am currently reading hounded, pissing me off no end, not that i did not know about it all anyway.

Love and support to you.

Thank you - fortunately I’m not a member nor have I looked to them for support. But I have tried to talk to them about why their approach doesn’t represent staff (afaik they are supposed to represent all staff above a certain grade) and that a hard line alienates people who would otherwise be sympathetic, and they couldn’t have given less of a shit if they tried.

On a wider basis, I found their proposal to hunt out GC staff a few years ago absolutely chilling. What were they advocating, people being driven from their jobs? Shunning? Public naming and shaming? They dropped it in the end on - I believe - legal advice but I have no doubt they would have pursued it if they could.

I go to a certain pub on this board for a laugh it helps me re balance and enjoy female humour.

Update. Tribunal starts on Monday. Just warming the thread up.

The UCU's legal team cannot be feeling too great right now. While the AHF team are watching the latest news coming in with satisfaction.

realitymatters

And for Sussex University read ucu on the same policy and practice issues. Looking forward to the start of our tribunal against UCU Edinburgh branch & UCU HQ on Monday.

Remember the UCU bigots were key in persecuting Dr Stock:

This is not the first time that UCU has faced controversy over its stance on trans rights, with the Edinburgh branch also seeking the cancellation of the 2023 launch of a book including contributions from gender-critical writers such as former University of Sussex philosopher Kathleen Stock.
Stock had herself claimed that a statement put out by the Sussex UCU branch urging action against “transphobia” on campus had “end[ed] her career” at the institution, while more recently the union’s national executive committee attracted criticism after adopting a motion condemning the Cass Review into gender identity services for young people.

I can't find this case listed at www.courtserve.net under Edinburgh, though I can find other ET cases there on 31/3/25. Is it actually going ahead? Or are we about to hear that it has settled? Or is it at a different ET? Anyone know?

Ah, it's under Watford, at Norwich. Hearing date: 31/3/25. Case number: 3309730/2023
Claimant: Ms D O'Neill
Respondent: University and College Union

Requests from the media and members of the public to
observe a hearing remotely should be made in advance to
[email protected] to allow for inclusion during the hearing set-up. Please include the following information in the subject heading of your email: “Media or Public Access Request” plus the case number and hearing date.

Emailing accordingly!

Having had a run in with the hysterical binfire that is UCU, that beeping noise you can hear is the tipper truck backing up with my popcorn ready for next week.

<sets out deck chair early for a good position>

Remind me - is it just against UCU or against the university too?
I'll be out of the country but this is the tribunal case I've been waiting for.
I have friends who work in senior roles in trade unions so I really want this to grab their attention and change their thinking.
I say 'friends' but I've distanced myself from both them and the trade union movement I used to be quite heavily involved in.
How can I watch it online or will it just be tribunal tweets again?

I've applied to watch the tribunal

The details were posted upthread.

Watford, at Norwich. Hearing date: 31/3/25. Case number: 3309730/2023
Claimant: Ms D O'Neill
Respondent: University and College Union
Requests from the media and members of the public to
observe a hearing remotely should be made in advance to
[email protected] to allow for inclusion during the hearing set-up. Please include the following information in the subject heading of your email: “Media or Public Access Request” plus the case number and hearing date.

Has anyone been granted access yet? I sent my request last night but nothing yet…

Watford were the ET for Jo Phoenix’s case an I remember a very grumpy clerk as well as it being very restricted on numbers. I think I only got in in the end by ringing repeatedly!

Ooh, they must have heard me - I’m in!

<clears diary>

If you are able to, please do furnish us with updates! I'm eagerly awaiting this.