Britain’s lost boys Sonia Sodha

[WarriorN]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/09/jobless-isolated-fed-misogynistic-porn-where-is-the-love-for-britains-lost-boys?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

I do agree but feel it's men who need to step up here

Boys either want to be women or are turning to Tate et al neither of which is ultimately good for women and girls. Victoria Smith has been saying similar recently.

If you're not into sport there's so few decent role models or movements for boys. From experience they go off track at a very young age too.

I really don't think it's as simple as the educational system. In my immediate family we cover the whole gamut when it comes to reading - from voracious to only when necessary - although even the one with fairly severe special needs can read sell enough for day to day life - not that any of his issues are dyslexia, which obviously helps.

Daily life now though - audio books rather than reading, youtube tutorials rather than manuals - I think I probably do less reading now than I did in my childhood (beyond 'press here' - basic instructions) - and we do pass that onto our children - my sister didn't read books to her kids, she taught them to ask Alexa. My youngest greatly resents having to read and write because he just has his computer talk to him and types at home.

We know that youngsters aren't great at thinking ahead - is there an element of thinking that it'll all turn out OK, that they can just be a influencer/streamer? That that seems possible in a way that never existed before?

Is there an elephant in the room about non-english as a first language? I know that one of the reasons my youngest was late to read was he was at international schools for the first few years of his education, and those schools were busy getting all the kids speaking enough English to learn together, so reading fell by the wayside - but then why would that affect boys but not girls? Unless parental expectation comes into it again.

I only have boys, who have a disinterested father (thank god really, because what he would have taught them about what it means to be a man would have been tragic). Both as different as night and day - interests, strengths, toy choices, fashion choices, attitudes and skills. In fact, if you listed out their qualities and those of their cousins, I think you'd struggle to separate the girls from the boys with any accuracy.

@UpsideDownChairs The children who don’t have English as their first language are in many schools the ones who get the best results. They are one of the reasons schools in London do so well, on average.

Interesting - I guess that's why it's dangerous to try to apply one's own experiences in slightly different circumstances..

Girls need fresh air, exercise etc too, I don’t think you can differentiate between kids (or even adults) like that.

Isn’t part of it that women don’t have to put up with shit men like they used to in the past? So if they are abusive/lazy etc then they are more likely to end up isolated sooner or later, whereas in the past some poor woman would have ended up stuck with them. So in a way life is more difficult for men now but that’s a good thing if it means they don’t get away with being arseholes.

My two boys are very different. One was reading from a very early age (no idea how) and is calmer and likes to sit and pootle. Not that interested in sports or outdoors activities though we do obviously promote as much as possible. Has got into beavers now.

Elder is bouncy and active and wasn't keen on reading. We've now found a series he is into. Extremely kind and empathetic though. Also loves scouts.

I disagree with boys and men needing their own spaces.
This is what leads to sexism and misogyny.
Afaic the only "spaces" they are entitled to are toilets and changing rooms, and I'm not sure whether boys - as opposed to men - should even be entitled to those!

This is not new.

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/203/education-committee/news/156024/forgotten-white-workingclass-pupils-let-down-by-decades-of-neglect-mps-say/

White working class boys are the bottom of the social ladder in the UK. They are not considered a worthy cause. The result is zero prospects and antisocial behaviour. Not surprising really.

We can’t say women can have their own spaces, but not men.

There are a lot of issues at play. Don't think the attitude "well men just need to sort it out" is good enough, it's a washing your hands of it approach, society needs to look at it. And they're becoming more of a problem because everyone has washed their hands of them.

Obviously now there are more opportunities for women as opposed to previously, but the older men have retained their privilege whilst removing it from new generation of men. It annoys me when I see a well-paid white middle aged man saying that it is quite right to remove opportunities from young white men to give to everyone else, but why hasn't he resigned and given his job to someone else? He is retaining his privilege.

It's why identities like "non-binary" and "queer" exist because it allows the traditionally privileged group to identify as non-privileged.

I guess if boys are struggling at school and there are few prospects for them outside of school then the likes of Tate telling them that they should man up and take what is owed them might be quite seductive.

Status has a lot to do with it i think. Certainly many men struggle with the loss of being automatically higher in the pecking order just by virtue of being male. For men stuck with a mental model of that rigidly sexist hierarchy they often struggle with inadequacy and a lack of confidence in a world where they are now required to prove themselves. And yes entitlement and self pity.

As for role models - I wonder what impact the Tiktok generation has on gender stereotypes. Very visual, shallow, no room for nuance.

Of course they do but generally speaking boys have more energy and feelings such as anger where exercise helps to expel them in a healthy way.

The number of boys around here with ‘dad bods’ is horrifying. Odd figures with bellies and thin, undefined limbs, pasty skin. You can see at ten paces which of them are allowed to live on Fortnite and don’t do any sports.

I walked past a demo yesterday calling for our local council to open a school for SEMH. Without exception every child at that demo had this look about them. I think there’s a very strong relationship between poor MH/anxiety and too much gaming/UPFs and a lack of exercise/good food.

Yes I agree. They are no longer king of the castle at home in the way they used to be. And their boss is more likely than not a woman (in our office anyway).

Yes. Why on earth should it lead to sexism?! Sometimes people just want to hang out with their own sex. Discuss things in their own way, maybe issues they'd feel inhibited about were women present. Privacy, and dignity apply to men too, for single sex spaces, if not safety.

Quote: but generally speaking boys have more energy and feelings such as anger

Do they? Or does socialisation alter the expression in girls?

Apologies for formatting as late keeps reloading.

Some random, disconnected thoughts: While I agree that men need to step up, I assume many of us have sons so I welcome a feminist discussion.

I still remember taking my then 4 year-old son to a birthday party where he was the youngest child and being gob smacked at the sheer physicality of the 6 year-old boys. I'd grown up around brothers and regularly played with boys as a child but I'd forgotten.

Another memory: watching boys being reprimanded in the playground for what looked to me like perfectly normal, boisterous behaviour.

And those GCSE English statistics .... I hadn't realised it was such a big difference.

I support boys and men having their own spaces

No. We can’t pretend the biological differences aren’t there to suit a social agenda. Testosterone creates feelings of anger and a lack of caring about others as much, this is why women report these feelings when going through the menopause.

If we keep fighting this because it doesn’t fit what we want, rather than working with it, we will just continue to battle the tide im afraid.

And most boys desperately need a strong dad at home which is what many sadly lack. Of COURSE you can be fine without a dad, but I think overall boys need a strong male role model and to see him treating his mother and children gently.

Yes, I think playgrounds need 2 spaces - one for rough play and one for more gentle play. This wouldn’t be a sex divide but it would mean all children can get what they need from being outside.

Boys just don't like reading. Boys just this, boys just that... and then surprise surprise boys do worse at school, which is full of girly stuff like sitting still, and books.

We heard from primary school teachers at two different schools that girls didn't do well at maths and that boy's don't read - said in front of us so who knows what was said behind the scenes to them.

It was galling as DS had his head in a book was a book worm despite having really struggled with reading at start- and had inherited dysleixa.

My parents heard same with brother in 80 - and spent a lot of their effort finding books he'd read - in 2010s we luckily found advice on here - and now in 2025 newphew in reception same thing - they think there are problems but they want to wait and see and while he not going to meet target boys often don't like reading so not to worry - no suggestions that might help him want to read.

We've lived in more deprived areas than most of MN - so I don't know if that's why we've seen more of this - and many boys like those in my family get support from family to help them so avoid the pitfalls.

Then the secondary has problem ridden English department and school offers poor careers advice and so many next courses need min in English and maths as do so many jobs these days - and it all adds to the problems.

Proper research into what helps them educationally probably a good idea to head off wider societal problems but suspect it won't happen and it will just build problems for wider society.

Sexist stereotypes harm all of us. I have boys and have worked so hard to make them like what they like and act like decent human beings, only to find all these stereotypes pushed on them when they hit school age.

Agree it's like a tsunami once they're at school age

It's always going to be a mix of nature and nurture.

There are clearly biological differences between the sexes when taken as averages; I've always taught children with moderate learning difficulties and it's always been predominantly boys. You get the same answer when you speak to SALT and OTs

As a scout leader I see boys absolutely desperate for young male role models. As soon as a young leader in the 16-25 bracket is there, the 10-12 year old boys are all totally focused on him and wanting to learn whatever he’s doing, even the otherwise disengaged kids.

And yet we've made it so hard for men to volunteer with all the safeguarding paperwork, especially some more ad hoc stuff. It's massive training courses well beyond anything when I was a child.

Yes, girls like and need to be active too....but I've bought up a daughter and two sons, and now have had a lot on input with a granddaughter, as well as having been a teacher, and I do think boys are a bit like dogs........they definitely seek out more physical type activity and need to be taken out for walks everyday where they can be let off the lead and run around and have adventures.

Even from a young age there is a difference in the physicality/muscularity of boys, and they are less obviously relationship oriented than girls. They like company but it tends to be oriented towards shared phyiscal activity, rather than towards the pair bonding that girls tend to engage in.

In many ways boys can be a lot more simple than girls.....less emotional complexity. And I think boys respond well to structure and discipline as long as it is coming from a positive and admired male role model. They don't have problems with there being a top dog.

Having taught English I do think boys respond better to texts with strong male characters and heroes, than texts focused on female characters.