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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

In quite the turnaround Scottish Labour say the support Sandie Peggie, and would not support the GRR bill "knowing what they know now"!

340 replies

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 18/02/2025 14:51

x.com/holyroodsources/status/1891851822278590711?s=46&t=AjtjSItRj-kgZwRzL-pdyQ

FFS. What is different now? It's not as if they weren't told over and over again what the consequences would be. 🙄

OP posts:
GargoylesofBeelzebub · 20/02/2025 21:02

What do the SNP think is the end point of all this? Do they think that the legal cases are not going to show up their lies?

Do they really think that society is just going to accept someone with a penis changing beside our daughters?

They're really not reading the room on this one are they?

OP posts:
Waitwhat23 · 20/02/2025 21:04

ArabellaScott · 20/02/2025 20:25

Hmmm. How many politicians are going to be casualties of genderism?

Shona Robison. Shirley-Ann Somerville. Nicola Sturgeon. John Swinney. The Scottish Green Party.

Not to mention those who were pushed or left their parties because of it. It's political kryptonite.

I take the list of those who voted for the GRR as a litmus test of who is a fool of a politician (for either being a true believer, really not giving one single shit about women and girls and/or for being so credulous they can be brainwashed by bullshit) -

GRR vote - 22/12/2022

SNP

• Alasdair Allan
• Angela Constance
• Angus Robertson
• Audrey Nicoll
• Ben Macpherson
• Bill Kidd
• Bob Doris
• Christina McKelvie
• Christine Grahame
• Clare Adamson
• Clare Haughey
• Colin Beattie
• Collette Stevenson
• David Torrance
• Elena Whitham
• Emma Harper
• Emma Roddick
• Evelyn Tweed
• Fiona Hyslop
• Fulton MacGregor
• George Adam
• Gillian Martin
• Gordon MacDonald
• Graeme Dey
• Humza Yousaf
• Ivan McKee
• Jackie Dunbar
• James Dornan
• Jamie Hepburn
• Jenni Minto
• Jenny Gilruth
• Joe FitzPatrick
• John Swinney
• Karen Adam
• Kaukab Stewart
• Keith Brown
• Kevin Stewart
• Mairi Gougeon
• Màiri McAllan
• Maree Todd
• Marie McNair
• Michael Matheson
• Natalie Don-Innes
• Neil Gray
• Nicola Sturgeon
• Paul McLennan
• Richard Lochhead
• Rona Mackay
• Shirley-Anne Somerville
• Shona Robison
• Siobhian Brown
• Stuart McMillan
• Tom Arthur
• Willie Coffey

Conservative

• Dr. Sandesh Gulhane
• Jackson Carlaw
• Jamie Greene

Labour

• Alex Rowley
• Anas Sarwar
• Colin Smyth
• Daniel Johnson
• Foysol Choudhury
• Jackie Baillie
• Katy Clark
• Mark Griffin
• Martin Whitfield
• Mercedes Villalba
• Monica Lennon
• Neil Bibby
• Pam Duncan-Glancy
• Paul O'Kane
• Paul Sweeney
• Rhoda Grant
• Richard Leonard
• Sarah Boyack

Greens

• Gillian Mackay
• Lorna Slater
• Maggie Chapman
• Mark Ruskell
• Patrick Harvie
• Ross Greer

Liberal Democrat

• Alex Cole-Hamilton
• Beatrice Wishart
• Liam McArthur
• Willie Rennie

Waitwhat23 · 20/02/2025 21:08

Not to mention those who were pushed or left their parties because of it. It's political kryptonite.

For example, people like Andy Wightman who left the Scottish Greens after the Forensic Medical Examiner Services Bill vote -

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/18/scottish-greens-msp-resigns-claiming-intolerance-over-women-and-trans-rights

Skyellaskerry · 20/02/2025 21:11

@Waitwhat23 thanks for the list. Have I remembered right that Kate Forbes was on mat leave at that time?

Waitwhat23 · 20/02/2025 21:16

Yep. There was considerable speculation at the time that the SNP were trying to push the vote to happen before she returned, knowing that she wouldn't support it -

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-contest-kate-forbes-admits-she-would-not-have-voted-for-scottish-governments-gender-recognition-reform-bill-4033579

misscockerspaniel · 20/02/2025 21:31

The Scottish Labour Party conference, which starts tomorrow, should be interesting

Anas Sarwar calls for clear guidance on single-sex spaces - BBC News

Washinghanginginthesun · 20/02/2025 21:43

Waitwhat23 · 20/02/2025 21:16

Yep. There was considerable speculation at the time that the SNP were trying to push the vote to happen before she returned, knowing that she wouldn't support it -

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-contest-kate-forbes-admits-she-would-not-have-voted-for-scottish-governments-gender-recognition-reform-bill-4033579

I think it was convenient for Kate that she had an excuse not to be there.

Needspaceforlego · 20/02/2025 21:51

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 20/02/2025 21:02

What do the SNP think is the end point of all this? Do they think that the legal cases are not going to show up their lies?

Do they really think that society is just going to accept someone with a penis changing beside our daughters?

They're really not reading the room on this one are they?

Totally agree. It's amongst the many things they don't think through.

They must have known sooner or later it would all blow up. I wonder if Dr Beth really thought he'd end up in the news like Ms Isla?

Quite funny parallel both had been married two women in a heterosexual marriage, even if Isla was divorced, before deciding to become trans.

From a women's POV how do you tell the difference between Beth who maybe has some form of body dysmorphia and Isla who's probably looking for their next rape victim?

DuesToTheDirt · 20/02/2025 21:52

@MorrisZapp Yes, yes they ignored us and put their fingers in their ears but they were under huge pressure to do so from the tantrum crowd, and possibly believed the electorate were leaning lanyard wise.

No, I can't forgive them. We elect them to govern the country and I expect them to be accountable to their voters and to look after the interests of their voters. But not only did they ignore women's rights, they explicitly locked us out of the conversation. Politicians are not stupid people, they need a certain amount of intelligence to get where they are. So that means they just didn't give a shiny shit about us and knowingly threw us under a bus.

littlbrowndog · 20/02/2025 22:45

No excuse morris.

they get paid to do a job and just cos we are women does not mean they can ignore us

which is what they did in Scotland and they are still ignoring us

Seriestwo · 21/02/2025 00:12

We need to keep this in the press. the number of people who have said to me “I can’t believe this nurse story” after I’ve been banging on at them for years about sex and gender is heartening. Actually, it’s fucking annoying because they should have listened, but you know what I mean.

Igneococcus · 21/02/2025 05:24

Alex Massie writes about first minister's questions (or whatever it is actually called) every Thursday in the Times. Here is yesterday's:
https://www.thetimes.com/article/8def053a-60f3-427a-bebe-177c012217f6?shareToken=c69f635ffdd9fc4bb978259a3408d709

fromorbit · 21/02/2025 06:12

Important - The Scottish Labour conference this weekend will be voting on whether Scotland should protect kids

Cass review
While a motion on the Cass review, submitted by the Glasgow Cathcart CLP, calls for Scottish Labour to back the withdrawal of Scottish Government Guidance covering the affirmation of transgender young people in schools.

The motion says the policy of “unquestioning affirmation” of transgender identity in school children is “not congruent” with the Cass review – which recommends “watchful waiting” instead.

Instead, it calls for “support to be provided to gender dysphoric children and gender questioning children” in line with the recommendations of the Cass review.

Questions around self-identification remain controversial in Scotland. Children’s author JK Rowling previously campaigned against gender recognition legislation proposed by then-First Minister Nicola Sturgeon.

Campaign group Labour Women’s Declaration Scotland called on Scottish Labour’s leadership to back the Glasgow Cathcart motion in support of the Cass Review, adding: “Now is time for Scottish Labour to make sure that biological sex is recognised as real and relevant in every aspect of policy and that Cass Review is implemented in full”.
https://labourlist.org/2025/02/labour-scottish-conference-motions-list/

So two things to watch

A - Do Sarwar and others back this motion?
B - Do the delegates as a whole back it?

If it passes it will be a positive step.

Also there is a LWD event and stall at the conference again. Be interesting to see the public support for them.

MorrisZapp · 21/02/2025 09:48

Times Radio now, Joanna Cherry on Sandie Peggie v Fife

MorrisZapp · 21/02/2025 09:50

Coming before ten

fromorbit · 21/02/2025 18:02

Latest - The motion to support Cass was voted down by a large amount:

Susan Dalgety This is the motion on the Cass Review -that delegates at Scottish Labour’s conference have just voted AGAINST despite it being supported by the party’s national executive, which includes Anas Sarwar and Jackie Baillie. Do Labour activists want to lose the 2026 election?
https://x.com/DalgetySusan/status/1892915892138226168

More details:

Scottish Labour chiefs lose conference vote for biology-based single-sex spaces
The SEC, the Scottish party’s governing body, had backed the motion, but it was voted down. Delegates engaged in a heated debate around it, with some of those in favour at times heckling and booing others speaking to oppose.
https://labourlist.org/2025/02/scottish-labour-conference-2025-cass-report-motion/

That isn't all the STUC is now attacking Sarwar too.

Trade union allies attack Scottish Labour leader for ‘betrayal’ over gender self-ID law
Anas Sarwar has ‘amplified a national and international onslaught’ against the LGBTQ+ community, says trade union
The Scottish Trades Union Congress (STUC) accused <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/o/XKvxE/www.telegraph.co.uk/anas-aarwar/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Anas Sarwar of a “betrayal” of the country’s LGBTQ+ community and warned that his about-turn “inflicts hurt on some of our most vulnerable in society”.
https://archive.is/XKvxE#selection-2931.0-2935.140

Like the recent drama over the arrival of the Labour LGB group and the vote inside Unison it seems the gender wars are only going to get more vicious inside Labour. Will Sarwar stay course or retreat? Looks like gender is going to be a issue in the 2026 Scottish elections anyway.

DuesToTheDirt · 21/02/2025 18:10

"Anas Sarwar has ‘amplified a national and international onslaught’ against the LGBTQ+ community, says trade union"

Always framed as anti-trans, not pro-women.

Washinghanginginthesun · 21/02/2025 18:17

STUC funded by the Scottish Government (63% of their funding in 2018, not sure if there are more recent figures available)?

https://x.com/lnmackenzie1/status/1892938227377475696

Washinghanginginthesun · 21/02/2025 18:19

Article linked in tweet:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17572462.stuc-accused-ever-reliant-scottish-government-funding/

IwantToRetire · 21/02/2025 18:24

The motion to support Cass was voted down by a large amount

What world are they living in?

Surely the vote is more virtue signalling than anything else.

Or does the fact that the NHS in Scotland is independent of Westminster that it doesn't have to pay any attention to how the Cass Review is being responded to by the Labour Government (of the UK).

fromorbit · 21/02/2025 18:25

Scottish Tories already using the lost vote as a weapon against Labour:

Scottish Labour reject Cass Review and motion to ensure kids get single-sex toilets
Anas Sarwar was dealt a huge blow on the first day of the Scottish Labour conference as delegates chose to reject a motion which called on single-sex facilities in schools.

Scottish Conservative shadow equalities minister Tess White MSP said: “This furious row sums up how detached Scottish Labour are from the public on this issue. It’s just common sense that single-sex spaces in schools should always be protected, but Anas Sarwar cannot get his party singing from the same hymn sheet.
“His desperate attempts to win back favour with women and girls simply won’t wash after he betrayed them by voting for Nicola Sturgeon’s flawed self-id plans.
“This embarrassing episode shows Scottish Labour can never be trusted to stand up for the rights of women and girls. At Holyrood, it is only the Scottish Conservatives, under Russell Findlay’s leadership who will protect access to single-sex spaces, in tune with public opinion.”

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-labour-reject-cass-review-34725971?

IwantToRetire · 21/02/2025 18:29

Scottish Labour rejects single sex space motion at party conference

The motion was put forward and said school guidance should always be mindful of ‘safeguarding’ and have single sex spaces for boys and girls based on biology.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24953699.scottish-labour-rejects-single-sex-space-motion-party-conference/

Article in full at https://archive.is/BzEHP

fromorbit · 21/02/2025 18:33

The debate on the motion was mixed with 2 other topics on education. You can watch the discussion here:

Looks like most of those speaking on it are after the 1:32 mark

duc748 · 21/02/2025 18:40

Does the TUC in England receive government funding?

Starmer will obviously be asked about what's going on in Scotland. I'm sure we can expect the usual clear and authoritative statement. 🙄