The "Left" won't learn

[ZeldaFighter]

DH has always voted Labour (or Plaid Cymru) if the Labour seat was safe. Good man, scientist, never racist, etc etc

Said something to me about Dr Beth Upton and I started to comment to be met with "I don't know why you're always going on about all this, no one cares!"

I pointed out how Trump is now President and his most successful ad was the "Kamala is for they/them, Trump is for you". I pointed out how many left-wing feminists and women had abandoned the Democrats on this issue - nope, nada. Just the economy and Trump love. Nothing to see or change here.

I despair....

It's nice to know some men "get it".

I admit I am obsessed about this subject, maybe it's being ND, maybe it's just watching 1984 in front of my eyes....

What happens when you press?

I think you need to edit your post title to replace “the left” with “my DH”. There are plenty of people on the left trying to turn the trans oil tanker around. But not him.

I'm actually not surprised dp gets it @user3827 for him the first question always about anything is "Is it true?" He peaked the first time he heard the claim that sex is a spectrum. He is too much of an evolutionist to have any of that.
I'm really happy that our teenagers are fully onboard with us though and have been even before it all became rather uncool to believe in genderism.

You can't argue with someone who is ideologically blind. It's too intrinsic to their identity.

Gets defensive or deflects, e.g. "I'm bored with this!" or "You know I don't like thinking about this!"

If I push through the defences, actually agrees with me, i.e. is absolutely 100% clear that there are only 2 sexes, mammalian sex is determined at conception and immutable, male humans have physical advantages over female humans in terms of strength and speed, male humans are overwhelmingly the perpetrators of violence and sexual assault, female humans are overwhelmingly the victims of sexual assault, female humans deserve spaces and clear language for safety, privacy and dignity.

But somehow is torn, emotionally or something I suppose, that these views make him at odds with what used to be "our tribe."

Keep pushing. Discomfort is the cost of evolving and improving oneself

My male and female right-wing friends are very firmly TWANW. (Going too far the other way into genuine transphobia in actual fact!)

My left-wing female friend was very much on the fence - you're just being mean but also I don't want to be forced to play sports with men. One left-wing female told me and said on Facebook that Terfs could unfriend her or be blocked. I've never discussed it with her.

The only other left-wing bloke I've discussed it with is my boss. We discussed it quite robustly - "men in dresses" - but he wouldn't see my points. I haven't discussed it with him since as I like having a job (that is Equalities adjacent!)

So it's not just DH, the only other left-wing people I've discussed it with don't see it either.

I get you, @ZeldaFighter I’m married to a strong case if the “I’m all right, Jack” type and I get cross about that.

I'm training DC6 to ask this very question for everything now. Sorry Santa

You're not alone: I'm NT, but it boils my blood,and I have to actively remember to try and keep calm as it's going to fall in time.

I think non -atheists find it rather easier to admit that they may have made a mistake ( because we are used to acknowledging our mistakes etc to a higher authority, and being prepared to try to change). Even non believers on the right have more persuading influence from outside themselves , as they believe in tradition, patriotism, courtesy, beliefs which can be disabling and blinding, but give you some stability when dealing with trends and unfounded beliefs.

Whereas I think a lot of people ‘on the left’ are invested in their own beliefs and judgements, bolstered by the frequent echo chamber. Of course that can be intensified by male self confidence.

Edited to try and avoid sky fairy insults, don’t suppose I will though

The 'our tribe' thing is really hard. Gender ideology is so clearly wrong that you have to start thinking about what else the left might be wrong about. It's hard to re-evaluate everything, especially when people on the internet are telling you half truths and sharing selective bits of information/ ai generated images and so on. I think for most of us on here women's rights is a touchstone. For lefty blokes Labour is a touchstone so it's hard to admit they got it so wrong. When I read that recent figure about 'gender affirming' breast removal in women on the NHS - 1,000 a year - I actually felt quite faint at the horror of it. I can see why people flinch from having to think about it.

I am so tempted to post LTB!

Not sure what this has to do with "The Left." You're just married to a misogynist bellend. I'm a bit surprised you've not noticed before, tbh.

I'd honestly struggle to remain married to DH if he utterly refused to listen to me on something I feel so strongly about.

I am struggling tbh, but i don't want to be intolerant of other views either. But to me, this is defending the non defensible.

I'm so fed up I'm identifying as a man in front of DH from now on (but return to not identifying as anything in front of DC)

Your husband's a misogynist. So are most people - right, left, middle, unaffiliated, and anything and everything else. When it's so easy to shit on women and there are relatively few serious consequences, why not?

Yeah but he identifies as a feminist.

Well, this is a twist worthy of a film - DH was telling me last night about having a lovely work conversation with the 6 foot tall person with long hair who wears women's clothes but is clearly a man. He said "she" (everyone calls them she) was pleasant and knowledgeable.

Obviously to be an evil witch terf, I asked which toilets they used. He thinks the unisex ones, of which there many. So, that's OK.

It's slightly ironic that I've never dealt or worked with a trans person, despite being in the public sector including HE, while he has, in his traditional science private company!