New Executive Order: Protecting Children from Chemical and Surgical Mutilation

[NotBadConsidering]

Here we go…

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/protecting-children-from-chemical-and-surgical-mutilation/

Thank you but being agreeable definitely has its disadvantages. I really do appreciate the grumpy ones! 🙂

I just don't know how anyone can look at the following photo and think that this is a path that children should be put on. Mutilation is the right word.

I haven't looked at the photograph.

I tend to be a people pleaser, partly out of gutlessness. I've had to consciously train myself to speak up and/or out when I disagree with the consensus. The maddening thing is how often, after doing that, people who were nodding along with whatever the thing was I challenged, come up and say they agreed with me and 'someone needed to say it'. So why not you, chaps, why always me?

How can this be justified?

I've got scar tissue from a necessary operation, to allow me to use my hand. It pulls, and sometimes the scar tissue splits in the cold weather.

How can the doctors take physically healthy people, and do that to them?

How can anyone not see this as destructiv

@DeanElderberry The maddening thing is how often, after doing that, people who were nodding along with whatever the thing was I challenged, come up and say they agreed with me and 'someone needed to say it'.

Well you see that's the agreeable folk again - actually being quite disagreeable by allowing you to take the flak. They want to have their cake and eat it

Achieving consensus among groups is a pretty important human ability from an evolutionary point of view. The vast majority of us are hard wired not to rock the boat - and the group is primed to punish those who do.

Think of the treatment of whistleblowers for example. They're almost always treated appallingly, no matter how justified their position is.

So optimal functioning of society is where most people are quick to conform and a few contrary types are there to call out when things get out of hand. Those people probably suffer as a result of doing so.

But in this particular instance, there are other factors at play. One very important one is that we've lost a sense of strong moral frameworks that everyone has in common, so we have people coming at this from very different viewpoints. There is also huge corruption and betrayal of trust in the medical profession.

My mother lectured in a branch of philosophy, and was a great one for the importance of working out a standard of morality (not about sex, - money, society, responsibility, truth, than stuff) that one can justify and live by. I think that probably influenced me a lot.

And the fact that Ireland has constantly been having debates and public discussions about the conflict between traditional views and what is actually right - often not the same thing.

But this issue has shown up just how very very conformist a lot of middle class 'respectable' Irish people are - religion is bad and wrong, so hooray for genderism and lots of sexual activity, and anyone who questions anything is a sinner against niceness.

I'm prepared to be nasty if necessary.

I'm a HCP. This week I encountered a transman, had a mastectomy, is on testosterone. They are seriously mentally unwell and have been for years. They frequently attempt suicide abd have suicidal ideation. So much for gender affirmation being the answer.

NB. For anyone who is worried about what the above photo shows, it is the arm of a female patient post RFF Phalloplasty.

I have been thinking about this section of the EO (my bolding):

"Sec. 8. Directives to the Department of Justice. The Attorney General shall:

(a) review Department of Justice enforcement of section 116 of title 18, United States Code, and prioritize enforcement of protections against female genital mutilation;

(b) convene States’ Attorneys General and other law enforcement officers to coordinate the enforcement of laws against female genital mutilation across all American States and Territories;

(c) prioritize investigations and take appropriate action to end deception of consumers, fraud, and violations of the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act by any entity that may be misleading the public about long-term side effects of chemical and surgical mutilation;

(d) in consultation with the Congress, work to draft, propose, and promote legislation to enact a private right of action for children and the parents of children whose healthy body parts have been damaged by medical professionals practicing chemical and surgical mutilation, which should include a lengthy statute of limitations; and

(e) prioritize investigations and take appropriate action to end child-abusive practices by so-called sanctuary States that facilitate stripping custody from parents who support the healthy development of their own children, including by considering the application of the Parental Kidnapping Prevention Act and recognized constitutional rights."

I have often wondered how someone can be against FGM, but at the same time be pro 'gender affirming care bottom surgeries'. I don't know if anyone else has thoughts on this? I just can't fathom it as a logical position to hold.

It will also be intersting to see how section (e) unfolds. Will parents have custody returned to them?

Jesus. I don’t know what I was expecting but that arm looks like an image from a Frankenstein film. It is inconceivable any surgeon would believe that’s an acceptable outcome.

It's not as if she gets a functioning penis at the end of all that. Though possibly that has not been explained to her😡😪

It sounds so nightmarish. Trapped in a delusion, and a permanently altered body, with no evidence of improved outcomes.

Argh i usually eye roll at trigger warnings but that....

I'm also fairly disagreeable.

Flow, obviously I don’t love the picture, but I’m grateful that you posted it. People need to see these images (ideally before consenting to the operations!)

I wonder how long that takes to heal. A long time, I'd imagine.

The vast majority of people have zero clue that this is what it involves. And the instinct, for many on seeing it, is to lash out at the person for sharing it, rather than condemn the practice. Cognitive dissonance is strong.

Which also makes the capture of the medical profession all the more appalling. They know exactly what it involves, even if no one else does.

Scott Newgent never fully recovered and her arm was permanently damaged. You also need a skin graft from another part of your body (usually the thigh) to go on the donor arm.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4964729-scott-newgents-experience-with-transition-regret

I also remember a programme where a young boy had been socially transitioned and he genuinely thought that he would be able to have babies when he grew up. The adults in the scene were rather wanting in terms of honesty in response to this assertion from a little boy who doesn't know any better. Can anyone remember the name of that documentary?

Yes and she was evil but she didn't actively try to sterilise the queer community - which is what TRAs are so vehemently advocating for.

I love, love, love this EO 👏👏👏

I gave a whoop out loud on the parts that called out WPATH (presumably this wording will impact adult treatments that are federally funded too?), an end to parents being disempowered when trying to safeguard their children and the increase in the statute of limitations for detransitioners who want to sue.

Thank you for the Abigail Shrier article
Genesis1v27 It really does explain clearly how this crept into healthcare "best practice".... and underlines why insurance companies refusing to cover it (alongside big detransitioner lawsuits for those who have already been harmed 😢) will bring about the end of this medical scandal in the US.

How odd that the EO is covered by a few short lines tacked onto the bottom of a piece about Trump's policies on federal jobs (which would be of limited interest to UK readers, you'd think), and not considered worth its own article. But it'll probably be challenged anyway. So that's all right, then. 🙄

IMO this ⬆️ is yet another example of the BBC carefully placing a piece of information so that they can say they covered everything in a balanced way, when the inevitable future inquiry looks at its role in the institutional safeguarding failings that have impacted children and vulnerable young adults. Unfortunately for them, lots of people have gathered evidence of the very consistent imbalance in their news and programming - and the positioning of a belief in gender identity as if it were factually true. This premise alone means that they will never be balanced in how they incorporate it in their output. Burying what should be a significant story in its own right in an article that probably won't attract attention is a cynical move and probably indicative of a recognition that they need to start looking like they understood this whole issue.

Also, a president that tries to overturn this EO, is basically saying they will reinstate chemical and surgical mutilation of children.

Yep. What I'd like to see next is Democrats who oppose this EO being interviewed on TV about what specifically they disagree with. Do they want the language in the title to be "kinder" but the outcome still the same or do they want the practices themselves to continue, irrespective of the name?

Because if you look at social media, many many people don't go to the source. They'll read an op piece or watch a heavily redacted 'react' video of clips, or read memes. I'd guess most people don't read the text of the EOs themselves..... Which is partly how soundbites and trite phrases are believed, with little to no basis in fact.

The Denver Health clip from NecessaryScene is a good example of this. It contains hyperbole (the suicidality comment) and misinformation: the correspondent tells us that under 18s could only previously have surgery with parental consent.... and then tells us that the only change brought by the policy is that 18-19 year olds won't be able to have this surgery. Um.

So it's downplaying the EO because of an apparent (and incorrectly described) limited scope of who it will impact (it will impact all people under 19 who receive federal funding for this "care", parental consent or not), whilst simultaneously drawing attention to the supposed impact on suicide risk.

Also, I wonder how many other hospitals have a cut-off at under 18 rather than under 19. It could give rise to some interesting legal challenges against the EO... " we demand the right to castrate and surgically mutilate people who are 18, because 18-19 year olds are classed as adults". Note to MNHQ re the board guidelines, I am reflecting the words in the EO title in what I said in this paragraph.

For me, the net effect of this EO and the one that came before about "... restoring biological truth to the federal government" are gamechangers over here in the UK for how this conversation will play out. The titles of both these EOs are provocative and bring people into the conversation for whom it was just a small, fringe issue. These titles act as a hook - they are eye-catching and invite the reader to want to know more - and just as importantly, they force critical thinking skills out into the open. My husband isn't involved in what I'm doing to support our daughter on the subject of gender identity (he's a great dad and does plenty of other stuff), so I rather enjoyed showing him the title of the EO in this thread and asking rhetorically "who is going to say that they don't want children protected from this?". Well, obviously plenty of people... but the sunlight that they bring in by doing so will be so bright that it'll be seen over here across the pond. Even the BBC might start reporting on it. Arguably, they may already be starting to tentatively try... I don't believe they've joined the dots up yet but their main Health Correspondent might be starting to wake up. Time will tell:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5265037-keira-bell-launches-bid-to-ban-cross-sex-hormones-for-under-18s?reply=141826884

Indeed.

And we had a TRA on here once, who was shown a picture like that, and claimed we were making it up. That it was Photoshopped. And I don't think it was a ploy. I think they genuinely had no fucking idea .

And in my distant memory, I believe that when Posie Parker took pictures like that to one of her rallies, they were confiscated.

There's been a concerted effort to keep that sort of mutilation evidence from the general public.

Even now, women are shocked. I was bloody shocked, and I've seen it before!

edited to add that all it does is provide a rolled up piece of skin that gets sewn onto the groin. It's not a working penis, it's not a working anything.

And last time I looked, in order to have an erection, you have to have a steel rod put in it so you're erect permanently. Or you can pump it up with some saline solution, using the fake testicles as a pump.

Any woman that wants to have that done to her has serious mental health issues.

Also, it appears to be all about people following your journey online. Admiring your scars, paying attention to you every step of the way.

It's a means of getting attention, or asking for help it's pretty fucking drastic.

@SionnachRuadh

Nothing to add to your excellent posts but just wanted to give a shout out to your username.

And last time I looked, in order to have an erection, you have to have a steel rod put in it so you're erect permanently.

Is this really a thing?!

I've seen photos like the one posted in this thread before and have listened to Scott Newgent speak about the ongoing problems with her arm 😞

But this stopped me in my tracks. Surely medical professionals aren't advising this procedure as an option to transmen?! On a practical basis alone it's mad e.g. how do you ride a bicycle, or bend over to pick something up. Or maybe I'm missing the point about where it gets "stored". Not being a penis-owner myself, I'm unaware of the practicalities of erection management.

I'm not sure if I've remembered the name properly but I can never forget seeing the journey of Azlan (I think) playing out online on X. Taking testosterone, seeing the physical changes this brought, a massive mental health crash related to lack of meds that help with autism-related anxiety... which included loads of self-doubt about transitioning... and then back to full Trans Joy. All via a trip around Islam and how brilliant it feels to convert to this religion (that was during all the aftermath of the 7th October festival massacre). All in all, a very lost person 😞