BBC Radio 4 series this week about PIE: In Dark Corners

[ILikeDungs]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00272c6

Starts Wednesday 8th Jan. 9:30 a.m. R4

Journalist Alex Renton is shown a secret document, containing the names and addresses of people signed up to a pro-paedophile group called the Paedophile Information Exchange, or PIE, which was active in the 1970s and 80s.
That’s not all: weeks after getting the membership list Alex meets a contact who gives him bags full of documents, crammed with reports, contact details, letters.
As Alex starts following up on leads; detail of the criminal activities committed by some of PIE’s members, and those connected with them, begins to emerge.
It’s a lot to take in. Alex is not only a journalist, he’s a survivor of child sexual abuse. All of this information about PIE; it feels like a heavy weight to carry. Are children still at risk?

Me! ME!!

God I'm old

Thank you for the link op, I have subscribed.

From the Wikipedia article

Barrister John Smyth initially acted for Whitehouse in her prosecution but withdrew from the case in March 1982. This was stated at the time to be due to a “viral infection” but was later documented in the Makin Review to have been part of his agreement with the Iwerne Trust after they became aware of his child abuse.[10][11] Smyth had appeared for her in Whitehouse v Lemon (1977), the prosecution for blasphemy of Gay News.

That John Smyth!

Oh yeah, it all goes round in circles.

Nothing new under the sun.

"The lady doth protest too much" is a useful intuition to listen to. Something we might bear in mind with the new found zeal some people have discovered around CSA.

I remember PIE in the 70s. The arguments put forward for lowering the age of consent and allowing children to 'explore their sexuality' were insidious, and persauded many young people that they might be correct, that children had a 'right' to engage in sex with whoever they liked (code for paedophiles). Lots of Labour Party people supported PIE, not just high-profile people and Liberty. (They were the 'right side of history' crowd - which sounds horribly familiar now.)

Yes, indeed. And there was an all-too-familiar attempt to smear people who opposed PIE as being - gasp! - right wing.

The BBC ran an excellent article on the history of PIE 11 years ago, which has been shared many times on here but is worth sharing again.

I quote:

'When Peter Hain, then president of the Young Liberals, described paedophilia as "a wholly undesirable abnormality", a fellow activist hit back. "It is sad that Peter has joined the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade. His views are not the views of most Young Liberals."'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26352378

Thanks @ILikeDungs , I'll listen with interest.

I wonder if Peter Tatchell's views on age of consent will get a mention?

I worked with a woman who turned out to be a key PIE sympathiser in the early late 70s/ early 80s. I thought it odd she used a fake name in her work. In fact she had a work name, the name she gave me, and a separate name back then.

I was appalled as she was having access to vulnerable children in their own homes and schools as part of the work we did.

I remember thinking she seemed a bit weird when I just politely quickly smoked a cigarette before we were to get into her car. She said, 'oh no, it's fine to smoke in the car. All that passive smoking concern is a load of nonsense'.

I told my mum about it and she said it was 'different times' and the left wing in the 70s went a bit far in the name of 'human rights/inclusivity'.

You can say that again.

Hmmm- I wonder?

I remember thinking she seemed a bit weird when I just politely quickly smoked a cigarette before we were to get into her car. She said, 'oh no, it's fine to smoke in the car. All that passive smoking concern is a load of nonsense'.

I know we aren't supposed to judged, but I'd win my bet she is also a flat-earth anti-vaxxer who sets fire to 5G masts in what little spare time she has.

I'm glad they're telling people who didn't know about that happened 40-50 years ago, but given that all the evidence is that PIE didn't die, I hope they are going to bring the story up to date.

One mustn't jump to conclusions - flat-earthers are perfectly respectable (if nutty) and are less harmful than anti-vaxxers (who should be exposed to Bubonic plague IMHO). At least I think so - do you know something about flat-earthers the world should know (apart from Hitler possibly being one)?
Not meaning to derail. PIE had amazing reach, especially amongst the young, and particularly university students - frightening and reminiscent of trans ideology now. Does the demise of PIE send a message of hope for those fighting trans ideology (also popular with the young and also insidiously persuasive)?

What demise?

Glad to hear that Francis Wheen is on this as haven't heard of him much recently and believe he had been unwell. Although maybe I haven't been looking in the right places

I thought Wheen had died, but I was thinking of Paul Foot.

I came across PIE in 1985, if memory serves; I was in care and one of the residential social workers left a copy of Private Eye lying about, most of it baffled me, but there was some stuff about the Miners' Strike, which interested me.

I read a few more bits, including about PIE and was shocked, even at that age in that time. The social workers constantly pressed home that there were (are) evil bastards out there, who prey on girls and boys, grooming with money and alcohol.

@SinnerBoy I worked in a children’s home about 1982/3 this is outing but i do not care about that.

i was on a temp contract, whilst the care where i worked was okay, (i mean not too awful) i went for an interview for a permanent job at the Beeches and was interviewed by Frank Beck, linked to a ring in Leicestershire child abusers involving Grenville Janner.

I was only 21 at the time but somehow knew exactly what i was looking at across the interview room. It was horrible. I left social services there and then.

i was obsessed with that for years and phoned up a main stream radio show and pointed the finger to no avail.

Turned out i was right all along.

Bannedontherun · Today 20:58

I worked in a children’s home about 1982/3 this is outing but i do not care about that.

God, that's so awful. I was in care from 14 to 16 and I can't honestly say that our staff were all great. In two years, there were a couple of oddballs, who didn't last long.

We'd ask, "What happened to Kenny?" and get an answer along the lines of, "He got promoted." or should similar. The head cook let slip that one guy wasn't fit to be around kids.

Sarah Ditum in the Times pointing out how some transactivists insistence that young children must be allowed to transition is a similar age inappropriate argument that PIE used back then to argue that children were entitled to sexual relationships with adults:

https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/parasitic-paedophiles-are-lesson-in-trans-debate-307l936m3

Archive link:
archive.ph/8BBDd

Incidentally the whole series seems to be available now on BBC Sounds - I haven't listened yet, but in case anyone is impatient!

There are a number of discussions about Mary Whitehouse on FWR, some of which overlap with her signposting the activities of PIE in addition to other complexities. A number of them mention the united front of organisations protesting her and the misogyny involved.

It brought to mind this comment from Gluck:
When Genevieve Gluck was discussing her investigations with Glinner, she had some interesting speculations as to why there is a concerted effort to disdain and attack the viewpoint of lesbians and feminists. Gluck argues that previous attempts (1970s to 1990s) to normalise various paraphilia and to remove the age of consent by forced teaming these campaigns with gay rights etc. were successfully halted by actions from women, feminists, and particularly lesbians who spoke up about their concerns, especially around safeguarding.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4554411-top-academic-behind-fetish-site-hosting-child-sexual-abuse-fantasy-push-to-revise-wpath-guidelines?reply=117401401&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Whitehouse on PIE

whatcanidoaboutit.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/mary-whitehouse-versus-pie-the-home-office-1978/

Re: BBC reappraisal of Whitehouse
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4497416-Mary-Whitehouse-a-reappraisal

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3249984-What-would-Mary-Whitehouse-make-of-all-this

It’s strange that Renton credits Mary Whitehouse as starting the push back against PIE but also describes her as ‘nagging against permissiveness’.

Women just can’t win - they can be absolutely correct about the influence of paedophiles on organisations and government but will still be criticised for being killjoys and nags. We see it happening in modern times too.

In 1982/3 I was living in a squat at Kennington fire Station in London. I was going on 18, and my slightly younger gay male friend was with me. It was a big 'open house' and not very secure, and we received some information that a group called 'The Paedophile Information Exchange' was about to arrive and hold a meeeting in a downstairs room at the fire station.

I'd never heard of them before and when I was told who/what they were I was torn and unsure what to do....whether to report it to the police......but at this stage they ( PIE members) were already starting to arrive. My friend and I impulsively decided to go into the meeting room. It was very strange situation indeed.I was the only female, and my friend was a very young looking 17. He wasn't even shaving.

They were literally all sat in a sharing circle, and not one of them visibly batted an eye-lid or said anything to either of us. We also sat in the circle.

There were about 10 men. A Social worker, some teachers, a cub scout leader, a police officer and a university lecturer called Jonathan who lectured in Classics at a London university...I can't recall all of them, all their names or their jobs.....but they were basically sharing information on how to access photographs they'd taken, and telling 'stories' about their recent encounters. ( This was prior to the internet)

The meeting didn't last very long.....maybe 40 minutes....as it was clear that they were jittery about exposure and were in a rush to leave.

It was surreal.....especially when my friend ending up going off with Jonathan ( who I remember as wearing a purple cape) back to his flat. There he was introduced to another man who told my friend to call him "uncle" and he was to ride around on his uncle's back as he crawled on the floor.My friend continued to see this man, Jonathan, a few more times.....and said he had lots of extreme pornography, including bestiality at his flat.

That meeting haunted me for many years.....and because of it I knew that paedophile rings were literally a thing, and that men from all walks of life were involved, including from the elite/establishment. Their whole rasion d'etre is to get access to children and they will get themselves into positions in which they can get access to children. Some befriend single mothers and get access that way.

I was tolerated at that meeting for reasons not very clear to me, but maybe also because I had a young looking gay friend with me.

Fucking Hell.

Yes.....and is always something that comes to mind when people dismiss the idea that paedophile rings exist or that they operate in the 'highest' places.