Have men rejected TW?

[Realityisreal]

Is the real reason so many men insist TWAW because those same men, rather than being altruistic and concerned about the TW, have actually rejected them as men because they identify so differently and just want to push them away from their own group?

In a nutshell: Are men who spout 'TWAW' really transphobic?

I don't know. What does that mean in the end. If you are some guy working as a drywall taper or something, with other men all-day, maybe you don't have much in common with most trans women?

I also think that some men are just as aware as some women that some of the men into cross-dressing are problematic.

But there are transwomen who use men's facilities and most of these seem to say they don't really have trouble.

Unfortunately a lot of men blame women for the rise in transgender people. They think women are the ones who continue to vote for progressive left wing governments who push this ideology.

To be fair it's not a question that I've ever asked anyone or heard anyone ask. Do men blame women for there being more (visible) gay men these days too, do you think?

No, from what I gleaned in my internet lurking days, gay people seem to be accepted or at least considered a non issue. This is probably helped by there being more gay people in right wing forums than you might expect to find. But this was just down to my own limited observations.

Yeah right wing gay men, I've met a few! I've not really spent any time on right wing forumming, and I intend to leave that to others in the future, too! I think some of the youtube comments I see give me enough of a flavour, anyway.

Men know TW are men. That's why they support them. Because men will tend to support their fellow men over women.

I don't know, I saw a disturbing thing on Reduxx/ Genevieve's Twitter yesterday about the extremely high rates of heterosexual men who watch trans w porn.

1st rule of misogyny

The second flaw in that argument is that transgenderism has risen regardless of the flavour of party in government. To take the UK, the most egregious nonsense has taken place under a Tory government.

The first flaw being that it is women's fault.

Unfortunately, in other countries outside the UK/US, the push for acceptance of transgenderism went hand in hand with the so-called feminist movement. Generally, under, also so-called, left wing governments.

Sad but true

My son would not agree with this! He thinks I (his father) don't accept him, because I disagree with his view of himself (he seems to think he is some kind of woman, though it's not very clear what he is thinking). Like so many, he has a real woman cheering him on in his "womanhood".

Not really. Every time I see a post on social media about a trans wining a women sports competition a wave of men will flood to poke fun at women.

Interesting question, op.
I don't actually know any men who think twaw, so can't comment.
The only person who has stated such views is a young female relative, and there was no sensible discussion to be had there.

I haven't heard or observed this at all. No doubt there's some comment on social media from some man saying so, but you can find anything to suit a narrative there.

A man saying TWAW can be homophobic - I dont want gay men in my toilets so lets encourage them to say they are women and go elsewhere.

or misogynistic - I'll always support mens rights over womens

or both

or a closet homosexual who is OK having sex with someone who thinks they are a woman but doesnt want to admit to fancying men.

I guess there may be some "be kind" men too but most seem to fall into one of the categories above.

I doubt anyone, even men claiming to be female, actually believe they are female. I know a few claiming they do appear here to berate us but I doubt even they really believe it. Some proudly claim to pass as female but biological women dont need to claim they look female.

This. I've never come across a straight man that wanted to share a man who thinks he's a woman .

even really young children clock the difference

Sad that you're so misinformed. The 2nd wave started in the 1960s when transvestites were never considered to be anything but men with fetishes.

It was only after NAMBLA and PIE were kicked out of Pride (by lesbians, not gay men) in the 1980s that they decided to come back as the most oppressed and marginalised minority.

I always find it advisable not to take lessons on the history of feminism from incels in the manosphere.

Wow. I was not talking about the history of feminism, only contributing a less UK/US-centred perspective.
I never said that I agreed with it either.

I will try again:

Unfortunately, the mainstream feminism in my home and neighbouring countries, is very much "intersectional". Demonstrations on IWD are about "women and diversities", rejection of male-centered language evolved into the current inclusive language (ie people who menstruate), etc, etc

So yes, like it or not, lots of people, mostly men but not only, do see the recent push for acceptance of transgenderism linked to the (current) feminist movement.

Hope my point is clearer now.

Yeah, telling those of us who have been around for decades that the feminists supporting GI aren't real is not going to be effective. Lots of us were around to see the transformation of women's studies departments into gender studies, all very happily supported by the feminists who populated them.

Anyway - In my experience men are less likely to believe TWAW than women are. Have they therefore rejected those men - well, they have rejected that they are women.

The tw have excluded themselves I think, from the men's spaces.

This ^

I'm a man and I certainly don't believe TWAW.

TW are men. Full stop.

While it would be untrue to say that all the men I know agree with me, the vast majority of my male acquaintances do. The only ones who don't are mostly those who've never stopped to think through what TWAW actually means, or who think it's something that doesn't directly affect them - which in one sense it doesn't.

Agree with@VimesandhisCardboardBoots , especially the bit about being easier to change men's mind. Because most men really haven't given the issue much thought considered it important, so if you talk it through, you'll get an "Oh, yeah", whereas women who hold GI views are likely to be much firmer in their conviction.

I’m interested to know what would happen to a TM or TW in a man’s public toilet? Would they be safe?

Generally yes. "We just want to pee" and get back to our pints. There's kind of a code in the gents to give each other space, no eye contact, minimal chat. That works in the favour of a TM or TW who is just making a bee line for a cubicle.

Most times nobody would notice, or simply assume someone dressed up in fishnets and a skirt barely covering their business is just a blokey bloke on a stag do.